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CONDO BOARD SAYS THREE'S A CROWD (Say What?)
The St. Petersburg Times ^ | November 18, 2003 | Bridget Hall Grumet

Posted on 11/18/2003 9:05:07 AM PST by floriduh voter

A man speaking to two women for a moment in a front yard comprised a "social gathering" subject to a fine.

By BRIDGET HALL GRUMET, Times Staff Writer

Published November 18, 2003

NEW PORT RICHEY - Raymond Pemburn says he is blessed with friends. They call the 89-year-old widower in the morning, or take him to lunch, or stop by to chat if they see him outside. Sometimes they gather for dinner at his home.

He just never imagined having a handful of visitors would get him in trouble with his condominium association.

Today the Pointe West Condominium Association board of directors will consider fining Pemburn for violating its new ban on front yard "social gatherings." The rule, passed by the condo board Nov. 5, requires residents to keep their socializing inside their condos, screened porches or back yards - not in the front yard, where gatherings can become "street parties."

"The board of directors enacted a rule to prevent basically what they call street parties from going on," said Jack Smith, manager of the 425-unit adult condominium complex in the Summertree development off State Road 52. "All they ask is for them to do it in their back yard."

He declined to say how many people would constitute a "social gathering" or to comment any further.

Pemburn admitted he sometimes chats outside with a friend or two, but said it's a far cry from a street party.

"We're not boisterous," said the retired business insurance salesman, who moved here from Fort Lauderdale two years ago. "We're not rowdy. We mind our own business."

Pemburn said he spent about a half-hour last Thursday afternoon talking outside to a friend, 52-year-old construction worker Victor Novak, about the leaky roof in Pemburn's Florida room. His neighbor, retired New York City police officer John DiDiego, 67, walked across the street to join them.

Later that evening, Novak prepared chicken divan for a half-dozen friends coming to Pemburn's for dinner. Novak went outside to smoke a cigarette shortly before the last two guests arrived.

Novak said he spoke for less than a minute with the two women before they all went inside.

"She walked across the street and said, "Hello,"' Novak said. "That was it."

The next day, Pemburn got a letter from Smith describing the latter episode as a "violation of the new "social gathering' rule."

"Being as this gathering occurred at your unit, you are the responsible party," Smith told Pemburn in the letter.

"They don't want you to live. They want to treat you like it's a communist camp," Pemburn said. "Where does it say I can't stand outside and talk to two people?"

Under Florida law, condominium associations have broad powers to enact "reasonable rules" about the use of common areas, said Ross Fleetwood, director of the state Division of Florida Land Sales, Condominiums and Mobile Homes.

"Of course, you say, "What's reasonable?"' Fleetwood said. "That's always up for debate."

The condo board passed the "social gathering" rule Nov. 5 as a temporary measure. It remains in effect until a permanent version of the rule goes before condo owners for a vote at the annual meeting in February.

A letter posted on community bulletin boards said the temporary rule was passed "due to the volume of complaints received by the condo office regarding "street parties."'

Then the Nov. 5 letter quotes from a Community Associations Institute brochure: "The purpose of rules is to "prevent nuisance problems and preserve aesthetic harmony.' Also, "reasonable restrictions consistently enforced over time preserve property values and maintain a high quality of life for residents."'

But several residents say the rule could ruin their quality of life by snuffing out the friendly socializing in each other's front yards.

"That's why we came here to live, so we'd have friends and someone to talk to in our old age," said Novak's 85-year-old mother, Caroline Novak.

DiDiego, the neighbor who lives across the street from Pemburn, shakes his head.

"This is really nonsense."

Bridget Hall Grumet can be reached in west Pasco at 869-6244 or toll-free at 1-800-333-7505, ext. 6244. Her e-mail address is bhall@sptimes.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: charliecrist; civilrights; condocommies; elderabuse; freedomofspeech; freedomtoassemble; harassment; hoa; jebbush; pascocounty; pascoprotest; pointewestcondo; propertyrights; summertree; tampatribune
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To: J. L. Chamberlain
They haf vays of dealing with those who dare speak up.
41 posted on 11/18/2003 11:21:59 AM PST by Liz
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To: floriduh voter
And, my favorite option is to contact the Summertree Development and/or Pointe West Condominiums to quiz them on the U.S. Constitution. APPARENTLY, THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OF IT...

Unfortunately, the U.S. Constitution does not apply to these non-governmental governments, to the best of my knowledge. They do have to abide by certain governance rules, but Home Owner Associations are free to restrict many liberties. And in fact they often violate even the governance rules.

My local paper has a real-estate law column. At least half the questions deal with HOA boards acting without due process. There is something about serving on these small quasi-governmental bodies that makes people into little tyrants.

42 posted on 11/18/2003 1:25:58 PM PST by Looking for Diogenes
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To: Looking for Diogenes
Board Members don't serve for the common good. They are aiming for a utopian enclave which is impossible because human beings are at their best when allowed to be themselves. It is our human-ness which annoys the heck out of condo and HA tyrants. They want clear sidewalks and meetings that nobody attends. NEVER AGAIN.
43 posted on 11/18/2003 4:47:26 PM PST by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org freeper site)
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To: floriduh voter
Hey, FV, these condo board members are up for election when? This disgruntled and lively condo crowd won't be re-electing this board.

The busybody board members would be better off on the east coast, maybe West Palm Beach. I hear there's a Dem. tyrant reigning over a Senior complex on the Atlantic side ~ Seniors intimidated into voting Democrat, enjoying the attention they receive from the press and wealthy and powerful Dem. candidates who stop in to acquire the tyrant's seal of approval.

44 posted on 11/18/2003 5:33:51 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong" ~RReagan)
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To: blabs
If you can't follow the rules, move! Buy a house with a yard, that way you have a place to hang your engine from a tree. You can watch the value of you and your neighbors homes depreciate and turn your subdivision into a ward.

I'm sure your neighbors will appreciate your smug condescension. Out of curiousity, how old are you? 95?

45 posted on 11/18/2003 5:39:36 PM PST by NittanyLion (Character Counts)
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