CONDO BOARD SAYS THREE'S A CROWD (Say What?)

The St. Petersburg Times ^ | November 18, 2003 | Bridget Hall Grumet

[floriduh voter]

A man speaking to two women for a moment in a front yard comprised a "social gathering" subject to a fine.

By BRIDGET HALL GRUMET, Times Staff Writer

Published November 18, 2003

NEW PORT RICHEY - Raymond Pemburn says he is blessed with friends. They call the 89-year-old widower in the morning, or take him to lunch, or stop by to chat if they see him outside. Sometimes they gather for dinner at his home.

He just never imagined having a handful of visitors would get him in trouble with his condominium association.

Today the Pointe West Condominium Association board of directors will consider fining Pemburn for violating its new ban on front yard "social gatherings." The rule, passed by the condo board Nov. 5, requires residents to keep their socializing inside their condos, screened porches or back yards - not in the front yard, where gatherings can become "street parties."

"The board of directors enacted a rule to prevent basically what they call street parties from going on," said Jack Smith, manager of the 425-unit adult condominium complex in the Summertree development off State Road 52. "All they ask is for them to do it in their back yard."

He declined to say how many people would constitute a "social gathering" or to comment any further.

Pemburn admitted he sometimes chats outside with a friend or two, but said it's a far cry from a street party.

"We're not boisterous," said the retired business insurance salesman, who moved here from Fort Lauderdale two years ago. "We're not rowdy. We mind our own business."

Pemburn said he spent about a half-hour last Thursday afternoon talking outside to a friend, 52-year-old construction worker Victor Novak, about the leaky roof in Pemburn's Florida room. His neighbor, retired New York City police officer John DiDiego, 67, walked across the street to join them.

Later that evening, Novak prepared chicken divan for a half-dozen friends coming to Pemburn's for dinner. Novak went outside to smoke a cigarette shortly before the last two guests arrived.

Novak said he spoke for less than a minute with the two women before they all went inside.

"She walked across the street and said, "Hello,"' Novak said. "That was it."

The next day, Pemburn got a letter from Smith describing the latter episode as a "violation of the new "social gathering' rule."

"Being as this gathering occurred at your unit, you are the responsible party," Smith told Pemburn in the letter.

"They don't want you to live. They want to treat you like it's a communist camp," Pemburn said. "Where does it say I can't stand outside and talk to two people?"

Under Florida law, condominium associations have broad powers to enact "reasonable rules" about the use of common areas, said Ross Fleetwood, director of the state Division of Florida Land Sales, Condominiums and Mobile Homes.

"Of course, you say, "What's reasonable?"' Fleetwood said. "That's always up for debate."

The condo board passed the "social gathering" rule Nov. 5 as a temporary measure. It remains in effect until a permanent version of the rule goes before condo owners for a vote at the annual meeting in February.

A letter posted on community bulletin boards said the temporary rule was passed "due to the volume of complaints received by the condo office regarding "street parties."'

Then the Nov. 5 letter quotes from a Community Associations Institute brochure: "The purpose of rules is to "prevent nuisance problems and preserve aesthetic harmony.' Also, "reasonable restrictions consistently enforced over time preserve property values and maintain a high quality of life for residents."'

But several residents say the rule could ruin their quality of life by snuffing out the friendly socializing in each other's front yards.

"That's why we came here to live, so we'd have friends and someone to talk to in our old age," said Novak's 85-year-old mother, Caroline Novak.

DiDiego, the neighbor who lives across the street from Pemburn, shakes his head.

"This is really nonsense."

Bridget Hall Grumet can be reached in west Pasco at 869-6244 or toll-free at 1-800-333-7505, ext. 6244. Her e-mail address is bhall@sptimes.com

[TaxRelief]

Gosh, he really should move, and out of Florida, too.

The Condo board was probably were required to notify residents of changes in the rules, and changes are rarely effective immediately.

[Redbob]

This "social gathering" rule was enacted without the consent of the condo owners?
It was imposed upon them by someone on the outside?

Or was it done with their consent?

[cyn]

"The rule, passed by the condo board Nov. 5, requires residents to keep their socializing inside their condos, screened porches or back yards - not in the front yard, where gatherings can become "street parties."

ROFLMBO!!!

But, seriously, fv, I'm surprised you don't see the dangers involved if these so-called "social gatherings" are allowed to continue unchecked. I mean, today it looks innocent enough -- 2 friends "wandering by".

But what will this "innocent" behavior become tomorrow?

I can see the problem here. You gotta look at this through THEIR eyes. They've just GOTTA keep these folks in check so the residents don't get ideas about "street parties" which OF COURSE leads to cavorting around naked, running wild, riots in the streets, turning cars over, etc etc.

Before you know it, people are putting flagpoles up in lawns -- the ultimate act of rebellion and disobedience to the community.

Best of luck to you in your community, btw, lol!

[cyn]

Of course I thought of you when I read this, Minute Gal, (no, silly, not the "cavorting" stuff! lol!) because of your past experience in gov't.

[blabs]

Cry me a river. I'm sure there are many details that are left out of this story, but just for the old guys humors sake - If you want to have a party, have it indoors, or else get permission to have it outdoors. Condo complexes have what is called "common ground", which means that everyone has a fair share. Since not everyone shares the same views on "gathering", the board enacts rules to prevent this behavior.

I paid over $100k for my condo, and recently joined the board of directors. This type of problem occurs often. You get an owner who "rents" his condo to almost anyone, and next thing you know you have people whooping and hollering at 3:00 am in the parking lot, cigarette butts on the grass and bushes, beer bottles in the pool, and all kinds of crap. This is what kills the value of your home and sullys the reputation of a complex. Next thing you know your living in a ghetto cuz "anything goes".

In order to alleviate the situation, the board should have a designated place for outdoor parties, and enforce rules such as noise and clean-up, like a clubhouse. Besides that, keep your friends in your house, and not leaning on my garage, sitting on other tenants cars, and killing the grass. Respect the fact that you live with other tenants who may not share your enthusiasm for parties.

If you can't follow the rules, move! Buy a house with a yard, that way you have a place to hang your engine from a tree. You can watch the value of you and your neighbors homes depreciate and turn your subdivision into a ward.

[cyn]

"The rule, passed by the condo board Nov. 5, requires residents to keep their socializing inside their condos, screened porches or back yards - not in the front yard, where gatherings can become "street parties."

Property rights in homeowners associations? ping -- humor in the dark side, rofl.

Hope you all are well. Is Julie Smithson a freeper yet?

[Tactical]

How dare some 89 year old man, have the audacity not to be bed-ridden or chair bound? Why older folks aren't supposed to go against the grain and be a happy, productive part of any commmunity, especially a controlled environment like this one!

By golly, standing in your frontyard at 89 is disgusting to the younger neighbors in their 60's!

We'll have none of that anymore. Next thing you know, they'll be drinking iced tea outdoors too!

Sheesh, some of these HOA's have their HUA. (Head Up A$$).

[floriduh voter]

This is Granny X. She strikes up a conversation with ol man Penburn. If Granny Y walks up to say "good morning or see you at bingo", ol man Penburn GETS FINED UNLESS HE TAKES IT INSIDE.

For shame.

[TaxRelief]

718.123 Right of [Condo] owners to peaceably assemble.--

(1) All common elements, common areas, and recreational facilities serving any condominium shall be available to unit owners in the condominium or condominiums served thereby and their invited guests for the use intended for such common elements, common areas, and recreational facilities, subject to the provisions of s. 718.106(4). The entity or entities responsible for the operation of the common elements, common areas, and recreational facilities may adopt reasonable rules and regulations pertaining to the use of such common elements, common areas, and recreational facilities. No entity or entities shall unreasonably restrict any unit owner's right to peaceably assemble or right to invite public officers or candidates for public office to appear and speak in common elements, common areas, and recreational facilities.

(2) Any owner prevented from exercising rights guaranteed by subsection (1) may bring an action in the appropriate court of the county in which the alleged infringement occurred, and, upon favorable adjudication, the court shall enjoin the enforcement of any provision contained in any condominium document or rule which operates to deprive the owner of such rights.

[sauropod]

Not as far as i know although she is aware of us.

[floriduh voter]

LOL. Florida the state of the absurd. A Condo Board Member has weighed in also. They should beware because THEY CAN BE SUED INDIVIDUALLY AND AS A BOARD MEMBER. It's an awesome responsibility to ruin peoples' lives.

[justshutupandtakeit]

No "rules" were violated.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Condominium is just a fancy word for "apartment". Civilian barracks, if you will.

My only advise to to avoid condominiums, apartments, home owners associations, etc etc......

[J. L. Chamberlain]

"They don't want you to live. They want to treat you like it's a communist camp," Pemburn said.

Well, like DUH! It is a communist camp. You signed the commie covenant agreement Pemburn, rot in your commie condo camp!

J

[Joe Hadenuf]

Florida is becoming the next California.

LOL! With a boring flat geology, nasty humidity and small economy, Florida will never be in the same class as California...

The greatest state of the greatest country on earth

[floriduh voter]

The Board of Directors where I used to live DID TURN THE COMPLEX INTO A GHETTO. I left just in time. Nobody can leave now because they're up to their eyeballs in litigation for one bad decision after another.

If I want to get a good laugh, I can drive by there and as ex-president (when it was a nice place)I feel dandy to be in exile now. JUST DANDY. My new place goes WAY UP in value while the other place is steeped in litigation and you're right, IT IS A GHETTO, thanks to a Board like the one in the instant case.

Maybe you're a good Board Member but in Florida MOST CONDO BOARDS are inept, LCAMs are unqualified but the DBPR backs them up.

Look out for Charlie Crist though. He's an advocate when Civil Rights are violated.

MY EX-CONDO BOARD TURNED MY HOME INTO A GHETTO. I'm free but I feel bad for Mr. Pemburn.

Good luck, at your thankless job.

[floriduh voter]

Re: your 29. Yes, and the moron, Fleetwood of the Division of Land Sales & Condominiums doesn't even know the Florida Statutes. TYPICAL, TYPICAL.

I SAY "FREE PEMBURN". He should have a woman on each arm!

[floriduh voter]

HUGH HEFNER HAS A SOCIAL GATHERING in CALIFORNIA.

FREE RAY PEMBURN!!!

[Sloth]

"They don't want you to live. They want to treat you like it's a communist camp," Pemburn said.

Um, Mr. Pemburn, it IS a Communist camp, and you joined voluntarily.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Last year, my condo association issued the royal decree that residents were forbidden to have real Christmas trees, and had to get artificial ones, or suffer a fine.

Something about natural trees being a fire hazard.

It was the last straw, and we're finally moving out of that Pit of Nazis and Snakes next week.