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To: mrobison
And I take issue with the evangelical zeal that many folks in recovery attach to their feelings for the 12 Step Program itself. Only Christ heals people. Everything else just makes them think they are getting better, but only substitutes one addiction for another.

Or substitutes one religion for another. Secular therapy has replaced Christian faith, as Freud designed, which is the root of the misplaced evangelical zeal that you observe.

The sad thing is that most pastors have aided and abetted this by sending church members who go to them for spiritual counsel to therapists, treatment programs, and self-help groups. Apparently the pastors don't believe Christ and God's word are sufficient either.

708 posted on 11/17/2003 11:41:50 AM PST by Stop Legal Plunder
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To: Stop Legal Plunder
We may differ in denomination, but you and I are of one mind on this subject.

During his earthly ministry, Christ would never have thought of telling a sufferer to go see a shrink. He healed them. And, He's just as capable of doing that today as He was 2,000 years ago. Just ask Him.
715 posted on 11/17/2003 11:44:46 AM PST by mrobison (We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams.)
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To: Stop Legal Plunder
Secular therapy has replaced Christian faith .... The sad thing is that most pastors have aided and abetted this by sending church members who go to them for spiritual counsel to therapists, treatment programs, and self-help groups. Apparently the pastors don't believe Christ and God's word are sufficient either.

Get a copy of the Big Book and read the founders' take on this. Bill W. and Dr. Bob were both serious Christians and had tried the prayer cure many times. Didn't work. Historically, religiously motived recoveries from alcoholism were rare enough to fall into the category of miracle cures, and they were certainly not clinically reproducible. (Or there would be few or no drunk ministers and priests, which we know ain't the case.) AA offered a technique that worked better than anything else yet devised.

Similarly, most of the other early AA's were also at least nominally Christian. (This was 1930's America.) Early AA was much more religious -- and overtly Christian -- than it is today. Over time however, as AA accumulated experience and developed a positive track record, it was recognized that plenty of non-religious and minority-religion folks became drunks the same way as Christians, and got sober the same way too. It was recognized that issues of religion should not be allowed to become an impediment to seeking sobriety.

The accompanying assumption was that progress toward sobriety tended to correlate with spiritual progress as well. This is true whatever the religious heritage and/or destination of the recovering alcoholic. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and atheists get sober too. The religious expression of any particular AA group will depend on the locality. That's all.

I think you are picking an artificial fight on this point. Go to an open AA meeting and ask about it if this still bothers you.

795 posted on 11/17/2003 12:18:37 PM PST by sphinx
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