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To: Phaedrus
Human arrogance is boundless.

Which is more arrogant of man?

Religion, that claims the creator of the entire universe takes a personal interest in YOUR life, that claims the universe is structured to provide for man's eternal salvation if man so choses it, that claims man can have a personal relationship with God?

Or athiesm, that claims that man is a infinitely small piece of a huge uncaring universe. That man is nothing more than a temporary collection of cells with a finite existence?

Belief in religion requires a much larger ego and is a much greater statement of arrogance on the part of mankind.

42 posted on 11/17/2003 10:41:05 AM PST by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
"Which is more arrogant of man? "

Atheism, that claims that man's creator doesn't exist. That it's not the Creator who was self-existant, but rather man himself who is self-existant, if only by random chance.

Or Christianity, that recognizes that man does owe his existence to the Creator. That the Creator does have rights to demand a certain level of responsibility and caring from His creation. That we as the creation have failed to live up to that standard that the Creator sets for us, but not because we were created imperfectly but rather because we were given free choice and chose to rebel. And that we are incapable of saving ourselves and need a savior.

Which indeed?

PS not all religions claim that God takes a personal interest in YOUR life. Many, probably most, teach that God is impersonal. Christianity teaches that God is very personal.

And while that might sound arrogant to believe that the creator of the universe takes a personal interest in you. Imagine the affront of having Your creation decide that You don't even exist, that they don't need You, that You're not relevant, that You didn't do all the things history records that You did, rather other parts of Your creation just made them up.

50 posted on 11/17/2003 11:05:21 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
Belief in religion requires a much larger ego and is a much greater statement of arrogance on the part of mankind.

Not to mention the amazing luck to be born in the exact time and place to receive the correct religion and one and only correct interpretation of the Bible.

55 posted on 11/17/2003 11:28:49 AM PST by js1138
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
Religion, that claims the creator of the entire universe takes a personal interest in YOUR life, that claims the universe is structured to provide for man's eternal salvation if man so cho[o]ses it, that claims man can have a personal relationship with God?

"Religion" covers a lot of territory, Doc. Do you have a particular religion in mind? And what does the foregoing have to do with arrogance?

Or athiesm, that claims that man is a infinitely small piece of a huge uncaring universe. That man is nothing more than a temporary collection of cells with a finite existence?

Problem is that atheism has no scientific or rational basis for these claims. We live in an orderly and beautiful universe and it is not rational to claim that this "just happened".

Belief in religion requires a much larger ego and is a much greater statement of arrogance on the part of mankind.

Well, nonsense.

57 posted on 11/17/2003 11:57:16 AM PST by Phaedrus
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
"Belief in religion requires a much larger ego and is a much greater statement of arrogance on the part of
mankind."

Really? I suppose Stalin was a really humble man. And so was Mao, right?

For a view of atheistic humility closer to home, did you know that Carl Sagan had over a dozen lawsuits outstanding at his death? His ego was so large and so fragile that he couldn't stand anyone to poke fun at him and he responded with the legal system many times. One of the more famous cases was when Apple was working on a new version of the Apple O/S. They code-named the new version internally after Sagan. When Sagan found out about it, he demanded that they change the name. So they changed it to "BHA" which stood for something geeky (can't remember what). Sagan found out, though, that some of the guys on the project joked among themselves that it really stood for "Butt-head Astronomer. He promptly sued for $20 million, saying that it was 'defamatory', and 'subjects him to hatred, contempt, ridicule, and obloquy.' He lost, but settled on appeal.

If this is a good example of a really humble and self-actualized atheist, then maybe you want to look at your statement again. Most people get over this kind of petty stuff by the time they complete grammar school.

302 posted on 11/19/2003 9:36:23 AM PST by webstersII
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