Seven million died in the 'forgotten' holocaust

Toronto Sun ^ | 11/16/03 | ERIC MARGOLIS

[karen999]

Yes, I do remember that film. I even have a copy of it on tape somewhere around here...

[JoeSchem]

The only European leaders to raise a cry over Soviet industrialized murder were, ironically and for their own cynical and self-serving reasons, Hitler and Italian dictator Benito Mussolini.

It's interesting that a lot of Lefties defend the support that Leftists gave the Soviet Union in the 1930s because 'It seemed like only the Soviet Union was standing up to Hitler.' Well, Hitler became chancellor in part because the Germans were afraid of the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Union was slaughtering millions long before Hitler killed his first Jew.

Somewhere in this, we have to consider the possibility that Leftists bear some moral culpability for causing Hitler's rise to power.

[radiohead]

I had a similar experience.

In college, I had my own copy of Mao's Little Red Book. The propaganda that I saw from Russia didn't look too inviting, but I thought it worked well for people who'd been under the Tzar. I remember writing a paper on why communism was great for China and capitalism a poor choice for India.

Then...I met some Chinese intellectuals who'd been ripped from their jobs and families and forced to go into the fields (I have a feeling they suffered a lot more than what they were willing to talk about). I met Cambodians whose whole families had been wiped out, Vietnamese who risked pirates at sea to get out. I watched as a Chinese man I was escorting for business stood teary eyed in front a Chinese opera exhibit at the Smithsonian. Chinese opera had been banned by the communists and this was the first chance he'd been able to hear it in years. I became friends with a Jewish Romanian immigre whose family had to flee due to their religion. She would come to me because, as a convert to Judaism, I knew more than she did, since under communism she could not learn about her religion. I had a Ukrainian client, whose family had been devastated by their holocaust.

I think that a lot of Americans who support communism do so because they think that things should be 'fair,' and that communism reaches that goal. However, if they ever met someone who lived under that system, they would be disabused of that notion in a hurry.

[MEG33]

Sir,you go too far.You seem to minimize the deaths of Ukrainians .

[KineticKitty]

Thanks for pointing out post 12, and Thank you for bringing this book up to our attention.

[caltrop]

Yes, he does.

In 1986, watching the effort to have "Harvest of Despair" broadcast, it was difficult to escape the conclusion that the deaths of some were deemed a whole lot less important that the deaths of others. Prior to that, I hadn't realized any particular group had a stake in being victims.

[MEG33]

I just looked up communism and anti semitism.Althought the communists promised Jews equality and the end of pogroms,they too eventually ended up in the same fix as the rest of the people.

[Andy from Beaverton]

We are talking here about an event that killed twice as many people as the Holocaust you combine both starvations.

caltrop, don't get mad when you read this but I found someone on the net who disagrees with your film review. You should send them an e-mail of dispute. The Hoax of the Man-Made Ukraine Famine of 1932-33

[Levante]

Ed Asner is a commie a-hole.

The attitude amongst many liberals is that the communists were, at worse, misguided but generally ok. This stupid attitude is itself criminal, because it completely overlooks the holocausts that communists have perpetrated the world over: in Vietnam, Eastern Europe, Russia, the Ukraine, etc.

Stalin misunderstood, my a$$. Stalin was nothing more than a political, bloody, paranoid thug who killed millions of his own people. He was much more evil than Hitler. The PC crowd can stuff thier heads in the sand and lie about him all they want. I'm not buying.

[MEG33]

Ah..a review by the Progressive Labor Party..Hmmm Description:(their own)A Stalinist Party,a revolutionary communist party in the US.

[MEG33]

My #92

[caltrop]

I checked it out. Thanks for steering me to it but I spent plenty of time arguing with Progressive Labor types, and other assorted screwballs, when I was active in NY politics so I think I'll pass up this opportunity to have another go at them.

The most amazing thing to me about the film was the very serious effort to make sure it wasn't shown. While a portion of it was undoubtedly an attempt to shield the Communists from criticism, it was clearly more than that in that there was a vocal constituency which argued that only Hitler's extermination of the Jews was ever worthy of discussion. This, presumably, is more of the same sort of nonsense as Elie Wiesel saying that the term "holocaust" can only be used to refer to the Jews who perished in WWII concentration camps.

[lavrenti]

Solzhenitsin's idea that there is no such thing of "good communism" played itself out while witnessing the Nicaraugan Revolution and the Salvadoran civil war from a safe distance. Every knuckleheaded left-wing Catholic and touchy-feely Protestant and Jewish clergymen seemed to think this was "love in action." Which makes sense, considering the leadership of both juntas/rebel entities included priests and Catholic laypeople enamoured by "Liberation Theology."

Didn't make a difference. Ask anyone who ever opposed the Sandinstas and the Salvadoran FDR/FMLN.

Mowed down by thugs with rosaries wrapped around the pistol grips of their AK-47s. Solzhenitsin was right.

[nuconvert]

Glad you got that out.
Don't think anyone here will argue with you.
(unless Ed Asner just dropped by)

[lavrenti]

The PLP had more FBI agents at attendence of their meetings than actual members.

Most of these little groups number no more than several hundred. Unfortuantly many of them started getting involved in Democrat Party politics in 1988, led by those enabling clowns from DSA (Democratic Socialists of America).

I was there for that. Now the cat is out of the bag, folks.

When people complain about the radical trend within that party, well, it all started with the Jackson campaign and the decision of several Marxist-Leninist groups to glom on. Several became delegates to the Atlanta convention.

Now, some of y'all know that when one becomes a delegate to a major party convention, it opens some career doors.

Draw you own conclusions. I figured things out while being involved in a group that refused to along with the others.

[MEG33]

Are you familiar with the World Workers Party and ANSWER International?

[rustbucket]

Somewhere in this, we have to consider the possibility that Leftists bear some moral culpability for causing Hitler's rise to power.

Indeed. Hitler was quite to the left by American definitions of the term.

Hitler is often referred to as 'right wing'. Historically, 'right wing' in early twentieth century European politics meant he was a 'right wing' socialist. A 'right wing' socialist according to Lenin was one who wanted socialism but didn't want violent revolution to achieve it (see: Lenin and Right Wing). Right wing socialists were also interested in national socialist parties, rather than socialist parties owing allegence to international socialist or communist organizations that Lenin espoused.

The mainstream media conveniently leave out the socialist part when calling Hitler 'right wing'. Nazi principles are basically socialist (see points 11, 13, 17, 23, and 25 of Hitler's 25 Points).

A 'right wing' European socialist does not equate to a 'right wing' American politician. If anything, the Nazi party was closest in ideology to the left wing of the Democrat Party, some of whom are nothing but socialists.

[MEG33]

One man's awful pain does not diminish the awful pain of another.Both deserve our efforts to diminish the pain and see that it doesn't reoccur.