Seven million died in the 'forgotten' holocaust

Toronto Sun ^ | 11/16/03 | ERIC MARGOLIS

[lavrenti]

WWP's rise to prominance surprised me. Like many of these groups, they are more a muddled cult than they are a political organization.

One thing you have to understand about these groups is they usually formed around a handful of individuals thrown out of other, larger organizations, grasped a particular form of M-L communism and just became encounter groups for losers. However, several of these groups managed to get support from various sources. RCP had a couple of rich kids financing the operation, enough to start a Maoist International of sorts and an alliance with the Sendero looneys in Peru.

There were a handful of groups that associated themselves with the ideologies attached to certain countries. There were two, for instance, associated with Hoxha's Albania.

WWP of course, holds the distinction of getting support from who?

Look, even when I was a hard Trotskyist, I thought WWP were weirdos.

Now, they're dangerous weridos.

[MEG33]

When Germany and Hitler lost the war we had all the documentation in our hands for prosecutors,researchers,writers to examine.

The Soviet secrets were not so well known until the fall of the Soviet Union,and we don't know it all.We made a pact with the devil to defeat Hitler and we agreed to let the devil take over eastern Europe.

We saved a lot of allied lives in the process but we got communist China,Korean War,Viet Nam,etc in the bargain to speak nothing of the cost of the cold war.Trusting communists is a dead end.

[lavrenti]

Though Lenni Brenner is not a person I want to quote, his description of the organization this man knew as "those &*%$@ Marcyites" are described here.

Considering Brenner's anti-Israeli stance, his opinion is rather interesting.

http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner02192003.html

[lavrenti]

The value in keeping tabs occasionally on ranting idiots like the article posted above is immense, as you can see.

The WWP are a lot worse than you can ever imagine. Now they are pulling the puppet strings on a "mass movement," currently enabled by those Lenin used to muse regarding as "useful idiots."

Whole lot of enablin' goin' on heah.

[MEG33]

They are communists,leading an anti war movement and the marchers liked their organizing the buses and signs.I cannot believe a non communist is that ignorant.

Not in our Name had similar sponsorship but separated in order not to draw flak.I'd buy my own ticket and make my own sign before marching with commies knowingly.

This is America and people have a right to protest but they should know who they are strengthening in the process.

[MEG33]

I think we are making the same point..I like "a whole lot of enabling goin on heah."Useful idiots" indeed.

[MEG33]

FYI

[Skooz]

Excellent documentary, "The Harvest of Despair,"
chronicles this heinous act of mass murder committed by the hero of the American Left.

The only reason this holocuat is "forgotten" (ie ignored by US popular culture) is because it was committed by communists. But then, you already knew that.

[Skooz]

notice how they suggest that there were 7 million deaths - one million more than than the Holocaust - how convenient

Wrong. The Nazi Holocaust killed 11 million people.

[lavrenti]

We're not talking about "communists", these guys are who Alexander Cockburn called Marxist-Leninist-Bonkerists.

Sam Marcy ran a cult. These guys are freaks, even by the standards set by the people I hung with 15 years ago. The fact they somehow are stage-managing a movement leaves me speechless.

Which, eventually will lead to their downfall. Generally, these people short-circuit, usually at the right time.

Remember: God looks after children, drunks and The United States of America.

[lavrenti]

Stalin bears just as much culpablity for the Holocaust because of his enabling and support of the Nazis between 1939-1941.

Just because Hitler stabbed him in the back never absolves the Soviet aid given to the German military and economy during those days.

I sometimes like to add that number next to his name as well. Along with the 20 million Russians killed during the war. Destroyed his officer corps during the Purges, then sat there and did nothing to prepare for a future conflict with Germany, which was sure in coming.

The Red Army liberated death camps their leader enabled Hitler to build.

[MEG33]

Brian Becker is a name I recognized.The Ramsey Clark bunch is involved in this Movement.They are anti Israel,not anti semite,I see.

Anyone pushing the right of return is looking for the death of Israel in my estimation.It looks like they have some Jewish useful idiots helping.

I read one article by Marcy and agree he's a nut but then I feel that way about socialists,too.If I hear one more word about imperialism I'll retch.

[lavrenti]

The Soviet murder machine was well-documented long before Stalin croaked.

Leon Trotsky was given a lot of information about what was going on and broadcasting to his people from exile.

Leon, now he was a funny guy. Had he been in charge, nothing would have changed. The Five Year Plan was originally his idea (Stalin commented sarcastically at the time "What? Give every peasant a Victrola?"), and he was the head of the Red Army during the Civil War, which was about as evil as any crew handed a Mauser and a target.

Finally, Trotsky was responsible for the slaughter at Kronstadt, which gives a little idea about how he'd run the USSR had he won out in his power struggle against Stalin.

However, he did present and propagate much of the information later confirmed when the archives were opened.

The labor camps, and mass executions were known facts in the 1930s. No one wanted to know about it, though.

Familiar story.

[lavrenti]

The SWP (which Marcy was originally in) was an interesting crew. I once sat and read position papers from none other than Lyndon LaRouche (under his party name Lyn Marcus).

The Trotskyists were, well, unbelievable. There was even a faction that had a political "line" on UFOs.

These guys inhabit a world that I cannot describe.

Clark is a free-lance guy. His politics seem to be populist with a Marxist DSA tinge. Becker is an ass.

You see from the article the odd juxtaposition of factions the WWP helped cobble together then.

Lenni, well, he's obsessed with Zionism during the pre-founding period. I'll let it go at that. Met him once at a Socialist Scholars conference in NYC 1990. He's everything you can imagine, and more. Ugh.

[lavrenti]

I forgot I know all this crap.

Maybe some think-tank should give me a job. It'll certainly validate all those years guzzling beers while reading weighty tomes, and behaving like a thug on campus.

You should have seen some of the women I dated at the time.

Yeah, a job would be payback for my suffering.

[Chad Fairbanks]

I think that a lot of Americans who support communism do so because they think that things should be 'fair,' and that communism reaches that goal. However, if they ever met someone who lived under that system, they would be disabused of that notion in a hurry.

Only normal people. Liberals, of course, would ignore the evidence. We see that everyday.

[MEG33]

You might add something to our knowledge,here.

[Spirited]

"The souls of Stalin's millions of victims still cry out for justice."

Innocent blood spilled has a cry of it's own according to scripture.

[nickcarraway]

BUMP