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Vanity: My Letter to Alabama Attorney General Pryor
Self | 11/11/2003 | Self

Posted on 11/11/2003 11:43:08 AM PST by farmer18th

Dear Mr. Pryor:

Your actions with respect to Judge Moore confuse me.

Is "Thou Shalt Not Steal" offensive to you? (I'm glad I don't own property in Alabama)

Is "Thou Shalt Not Murder" problematic for you? (I'm glad I don't live in Alabama)

Is "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" hurtful to you? (I'm glad you don't know my wife.)

Is "Thou Shalt not Bear False Witness" repugnant to you? (I'm glad I never had to seek justice in your state.)

Is "Thou Shalt Have no Other Gods Before Me" distasteful to you? (What with lightning bolts and all, I'm glad I dont worship next to you.)

We are a nation of laws, Mr. Pryor, and not of men. I'm just confused as to which laws you follow.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: billpryor; judgemoore; pryor; tencommandments
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To: Looking for Diogenes
George III might have sided with Moore as well.

Perhaps but you didn't quote George III as evidence that the posting of the Ten Commandments in a courtroom in Alabam was unconstitutional. You brought up Justinian who constructed many churches with state money and endorse one religion as the true religion.

Perhaps, in the future, you should leave Justinian out of the debate?

While our legal systems are based upon Roman Law and English Common Law, we now have our own, fully developed legal code. A legal code which forbids placing explicitly religous monuments in government buildings

LOL, just a few posts ago they were based on the Justinian Code which incorporated Roman Law.

Of course what you left out was that the Justinian Code was not based only on Roman Law but was very heavily influenced by Christianity.

And we don't have a Constitution that bans "explicitly religious monuments in government buildings". We have unelected judical tyrannists who do that. The Decalogue is by all accounts "explicitly religious" and appears in the SCOTUS. So much for that argument.

We do have a Constitution that proscribes the COngress from establishing a state religion. Likewise, we have 50 states whose Constitutions do the same thing. The problem is that the decalogue does not establish any particular religion unless one is of the mind that all of the sects of Christianity, Judaism and Islam are one religion. I would have to say that one would have to be loco to make such a claim. What do you think?

141 posted on 11/11/2003 1:50:02 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: farmer18th
"No King but Jesus"

A Great Rallying Cry for the 21rst Century


“No King But Jesus” was actually a quote from our Founding Fathers. It was a rallying cry during the American Revolution, “passed up and down the length of America by the Committees of Correspondence.”

April 28, 2001

An Address By GREGORY J. RUMMO for THE NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER


It was in 1952 that President Harry Truman signed a resolution with Congress authorizing an annual “National Day of Prayer.” In 1988, the resolution was amended by President Ronald Reagan to designate the first Thursday of May as The National Day of Prayer. This morning, we meet to celebrate the 50th government-proclaimed National Day of Prayer, which will actually take place next Thursday on May 3.

I am honored that you have asked me to speak on this 50th anniversary and the first NDOP of the third millennium.

It is interesting to note that the theme for this year’s observance is “One Nation Under God,” based on Psalm 33:12 which states, “Blessed is the Nation whose God is LORD.”

But is America really a nation whose God is LORD? I find when I mention God in my columns, I am usually challenged to explain which God I am talking about. We really never get around to His Lordship.

If we consider Psalm 33:12 in the light of the last eight years of American presidential politics, and specifically the lack of character of the man who was the two-term elected leader of the most powerful country in the world, one is really left to wonder if America is a nation whose God is LORD.

I am not here to beat the dead horse of bashing Bill Clinton. I wish instead to look at ourselves.

How could such a thing happen in America, the “Christian nation?” Bill Bennett, writing in his book, “The Death of Outrage,” (The Free Press, 1998) said: “Deception often works, at least for a time. And it is a fact that there [was] little outrage about the president’s misconduct—even among Americans who assume allegations of sexual and criminal wrongdoing are true. For example, immediately after he was rocked by serious and credible allegations of wrongdoing, Mr. Clinton’s approval ratings went up, way up—as high as 79% according to an NBC/Wall Street Journal Poll.” Bennett continues, “What explains this seeming public indifference toward and even acceptance of the president’s scandals? The explanations most often put forth include very good economic times, scandal fatigue, the president’s hyper-aggressive and relentless spin team, the inclination to withhold judgment until more facts are known, to give the president the benefit of the doubt…These are plausible explanations. And still, I cannot shake the thought that the widespread loss of outrage against the president’s misconduct tells us something fundamentally important about our condition. Our commitment to long-standing American ideals has been enervated. We desperately need to recover them and soon. They are under assault,” Bennett concludes.

"A Christian Nation," you say?

Let us consider these statistics. In the book, “Awakening the Giant,” by Jim Russell, (Zondervan, 1996) the author writes: “Having studied religious polling data for several years, I knew that 89% of Americans perceive themselves as Christians and that…the 1993-1994 Barna Report, speaking of adult Americans, affirms that ‘85% believe that Jesus was crucified, died and was resurrected, and is spiritually alive today.’” In another study quoted by Russell, “74% of Americans answer ‘yes’ to the precise question: ‘would you say you have made a commitment to Jesus Christ or not.’”

If these numbers are to be believed, how could Americans have elected and then re-elected Bill Clinton to the presidency? And ponder the more recent national hysteria over George Bush’s choice for Attorney General—John Ashcroft—simply because the man is a committed evangelical Christian. The furor was couched in baseless charges of racism and homophobia, but the real fear in the Religious Left’s community was Ashcroft’s personal relationship with Jesus Christ. His critics took the Attorney General’s remarks made during a speech he gave at Bob Jones University wherein he stated “We have no king but Jesus,” wildly out of context. This statement was twisted by Mr. Ashcroft’s accusers who insinuated he would not be capable of supporting the Rule of constitutional law because Jesus was a higher authority in his life than the US Constitution.

I found this fear among liberals to be baseless and with no historical precedent, at least not in the generations prior to the one in which we are now living. I wrote about it in a column that ran in the Independent News. I said the same red-blooded patriotism that led the Founding Fathers to pledge their “lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor,” so that we could live in freedom today, over 200 years later, was what formed the basis for Mr. Ashcroft’s comments. “No King But Jesus” was actually a quote taken from our Founding Fathers. Peter Marshall and David Manuel in their book, “The Light and the Glory” (Revel, 1977) wrote that it was a “rallying cry during the American Revolution, passed up and down the length of America by the Committees of Correspondence.”

“No King but Jesus” became the Zeitgeist that led to our US Constitution and our present republican form of government. Our fore fathers were lovers of freedom and liberty. “Death,” they proclaimed in 1773 “is more eligible than slavery. A free-born people are not required by the religion of Jesus Christ to submit to tyranny, but may make use of the power as God has given them to recover and support their laws and liberties…"

Please notice if you will that America's laws and liberties were in good company with the religion of Jesus Christ.

Now, let’s pause and think for a moment. Certainly the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution understood the principles of liberty, justice and the proper role of religion and government. These are the men who designed a system of self government which we now live under, based on “the laws of nature and the laws of nature’s God.” I think you will agree that it was ludicrous to question Mr. Ashcroft’s qualifications for simply quoting the men to whom we owe our liberty.

Getting back to the statistics cited by Mr. Russell in his book, I wonder about the depth of those professions. Is it really possible that 85% of Americans believe that Jesus was crucified, died and was resurrected, and is spiritually alive today?’” If this is really true, then we have a huge problem with Christianity in the 21rst century.

Some recent statistics reported by Barna research in December of last year shed more light on the overall picture of Christianity in America. The picture it paints is chilling.

There still appears to be a majority of people who call themselves “Christians,” Overall, the latest statistics show that 60% of all adults agree, "the Bible is totally accurate in all that it teaches." Yet, when Christians themselves are polled, the results are distressing. Here are some of the specific findings:

A minority of born again adults (44%) and an even smaller proportion of born again teenagers (9%) are certain of the existence of absolute moral truth.

Among born again Christian adults, only 8% tithe their income to their church; 16% give no donations to their church throughout the year.

Only 1% of all born again adults firmly concurred with a list of basic belief statements from the Bible; among them are:

The Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings

You, personally, have a responsibility to tell other people your religious beliefs

Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth

The universe was originally created by God

Less than one-third of all teenagers are likely to attend a Christian church once they are living independent of their parents.

Although most believers say that serving the needy is important to do, just 34% gave any time and money to serve the poor in the past year.

Most Christians' votes were influenced more by their economic self-interest than by their spiritual and moral values.

Only a minority of born again teenagers (44%) claim that they are "absolutely committed to the Christian faith."

Baby Buster adults are widely regarded as highly spiritual, yet the share of 18-29 year olds within the born again population has dropped from 20% in 1991 to just 14% today.

Herein lies the reason why John Ashcroft encountered such opposition. And similarly, is it any wonder that America as a nation winked at sexual promiscuity and the failure to uphold the Rule of Law by the White House for eight years…and it continued even after Bill Clinton left office. As one New York Post letter-to-the-editor writer put it earlier this year in referring to the Clintons’ continuing string of denials: “How this couple that remembers so little has risen to such prominence in this nation is a true testament to the weakness of our republic.”

In the Old Testament book of Daniel, we read about a bleak time in Israel’s history when the nation if Israel was taken captivity by the Babylonians. Daniel, a spiritual young man whom most theologians believe was a teenager or in his early 20’s realized that the plight of his people and the hand of God’s judgment, was their own fault.

He prayed: “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame-the men of Judah and people of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you. O LORD, we and our kings, our princes and our fathers are covered with shame because we have sinned against you. The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him; we have not obeyed the LORD our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you. Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. The LORD did not hesitate to bring the disaster upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him. Now, O Lord our God, who brought your people out of Egypt with a mighty hand and who made for yourself a name that endures to this day, we have sinned, we have done wrong. O Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our fathers have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn to all those around us.” (Dan 9:7-16)

This was quite a prayer coming from this young man whose testimony in word and deed became well known throughout Babylon and the subsequent kingdoms that followed. God later used Daniel to speak in high government places, and gave him opportunities to present the one true God to some very politically powerful people because of his faithfulness to the Word of God. I’d like to examine several points of Daniel’s prayer from a modern-day perspective, and reflect on them here this morning.

Daniel’s Prayer Identified A Failure in the Pulpit

Daniel prayed, “Our kings, our princes and our fathers are covered with shame..."

Daniel first pointed the finger at the spiritual leaders of his people. The same could be said about the church in America today. Our republic is weak because America’s churches have failed. The pulpit has become anemic. We entertain today, we don’t preach. Pastors are afraid to offend their congregations with the truth. The power of the Gospel is unchanged, but if it is not preached in power from the pulpits of American churches, then there will be no power to transform lives and challenge Christian’s hearts to live discipled lives. Ray Stedman, writing in the forward to Dr. Stephen Olford’s book “Preaching the Word of God,” said, "The greatest power ever known is the spoken Word of God. It has called worlds into being, toppled empires, healed and comforted the sick, shaken the proud, and resurrected the dead. Yet, in far too many pulpits, that powerful Word lies unopened, unspoken and, therefore, uncomprehended."

But perhaps some of the strongest words ever spoken came from the great 19th century revivalist, Charles Finney. Born in 1792, he became a Christian at age 29. For twenty years he preached the Gospel until he became weak from the effort. The doctors told him he’d die if he didn’t get some rest so he took a cruise and upon his return, he preached another 40 years. So powerful was the Spirit of God upon Charles Finney that it was said of him, “When he walks into a room, people fall on their faces, convicted by the Holy Spirit of their sins and the need for repentance.”

This is what he said about the church in America in the 1800’s: “If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.”

Daniel’s Prayer Recognized A Failure to Identify Sin

Daniel prayed, “Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you.”

Daniel was a godly man, yet he humbly identified himself with his fellow Jews who were living unfaithful and undiscipled lives. And he was not afraid to call his and his people’s failures sin. When Christians should take a biblical stand, we often settle for what is legal or moral and think we are doing our best and God a favor. But what is legal and what is moral in America, sadly, in many cases can hardly be characterized as biblical. The souls of 41 million unborn infants will testify to this on that fearful day when all men shall stand and give an account.

Christians—“followers of Christ” have redefined the word “Christian” and what being a Christian—a true disciple of Jesus Christ means.

We use such phrases to describe ourselves as “born again Christians,” or “evangelical Christians,” or “fundamentalist Christians,” or “good Christians.” Every Christian should be a “born again Christian.” Every Christian should be an evangelical Christian, every Christian ought to believe in the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and every Christian ought to be good.

And we have forgotten what sin is, and how much God hates it. We are willing to settle for what looks good on the outside while we rot from within. Jim Russell, author of “Awakening the Giant,” whom I mentioned earlier wrote: “In the transition to accountability and self-examination…is there a universal unconfessed sin draining spiritual power and effectiveness from the body of Christ in America today?” Russell continues, “One day, while reading 2 Chronicles 7:14, ‘If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land,’ it came to me: How many Christians have you heard recently confess to being wicked? Here is a profound truth. Christians have reinterpreted the biblical definition of wickedness and sin. They have defined a category of sins for themselves they consider only naughty or at least acceptable to accommodate their shameful surrender to the conformity of a worldly culture,” Russell concludes

Daniel Identified A Failure to Remember the Goodness of God

Daniel prayed: “Now, O Lord our God, who brought your people out of Egypt with a mighty hand..."

Daniel reminded himself of the goodness of God. Jesus warned “to whom much is given much will be required.” Sadly, while we have been given much in America, we have failed to hold to our part of the bargain.

Christian contemporary artists “Phillips, Craig and Dean” have summed it up in their song ‘Restoration’: Looking at this falling race, standing in this light of grace, we can’t see the shadow of the past. Building our security, truth lost its identity...” And the result, the songwriters conclude is we are “twisted in this awful mess, swimming in our own success, watching as the truth just fades away."

Despite America’s moral shortcomings, we are the most blessed nation on earth. Our technology, our financial resources, our infrastructure and our system of government is unparalleled. Nowhere else do immigrants desire to come like they desire to come to America. They risk their lives on rafts, or lock themselves in ocean containers, or in wheel wells of 747’s. The “American Dream” is still something very much alive in the minds of those in the world who are on the outside looking in, those who are less fortunate than we who were born here and have so much simply because of our birth rite.

We Americans take things for granted. I am reminded of this often, when I travel to third world countries. I have been to Peru, Venezuela, and Mexico during the last three years. And not major, developed, modern cities I might add. In the Venezuelan Rain Forest, for example, there is no electricity, no running water, no ice for cold drinks, no 7-11’s, no automobiles, no television, and no Super Nintendo. I could go on but I think you get the picture. We think it is our due, our right to have all of these things and only the very best because we are Americans. We have forgotten the reasons why we have it so good.”

Phillips Craig and Dean’s song “Restoration,” in addition to identifying the problem, offers a solution: “We need to take some time for self-examination, we need to be baptized in salvation, what we really need is restoration. It’s time to put our faith to test, let our souls be undressed and show the world what we mean.”

Our second president, John Adams, said: “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

Indeed, John Ashcroft was right. “No King but Jesus” should be our rallying cry if we are to see a change in this nation of ours. We must re-establish the link between the Bible, our laws and our liberties.

Brothers and sisters, it’s largely up to us. We have a lot of work to do. But Praise God it is His work, and He has promised us that His Yoke is light because His power is great. If we are ever to realize "a nation blessed because its God is LORD”--in its true biblical context—the only way this will be possible is if an old–fashioned, Holy Ghost revival breaks out across the land.

We must fall upon our faces before a Holy and a Righteous God, and implore Him for such a great revival. We should tremble for ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our communities and our countrymen.

I leave you with this haunting thought: Jesus said in Luke 18:8 “When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” Thank you and God bless you. n

This speech was given at The Philadelphia Church in Oak Ridge, New Jersey on April 28, 2001.

e-mail the author at:

GregoryJRummo@aol.com



142 posted on 11/11/2003 1:51:00 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: farmer18th
..an even shakier place would be standing in ministerial robes and failing to defend the public display of God's law..wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near there...

You need to think a bit harder about my first comment....it might not be about what you think it is about...and the reluctance of ministers to embrace Moore whom they did rally for in the first case has meaning.

143 posted on 11/11/2003 1:51:21 PM PST by reflecting
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To: EternalVigilance
You miss reflecting's point, and are quite wide of the mark. You ASSUME that those who don't rally to Moore have some defect, whether timidity or impurity or otherwise, which prevents them from doing so. reflecting's obvious point - obvious to anyone who is not swooning over Moore - is that PERHAPS MOORE DOES NOT DESERVE THE SUPPORT. He is not helping the cause of having the Ten Commandments in public buildings by creating an extreme case and then leading public attacks on everyone who disagrees with him. NONE of these judges says that the 10 Commandments can't be displayed in courthouses - in fact, they all said they CAN, but not when used to endorse the favored faith of the court system. Plus, Moore is a shill for ATLA and the plaintiffs' lobby, and has accomplished nothing in his career in public life except the spread of divisiveness and self-righteousness.
144 posted on 11/11/2003 1:51:33 PM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: Looking for Diogenes
"Anno Domini" doesn't bother me, but it does bother Jews. I guess they aren't included in that part of the Ten Commandments.

Take it up with the framers of the Constitution.

145 posted on 11/11/2003 1:52:10 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: TheOtherOne
The word of God is not altered whether this stone stands or not.

Then, you must an objection to God's word itself:

"Write them on the door frames of your houses and on your gates..." ???

What are the "gates" of the city? Isn't that where the law givers and the rulers sit? Which part of God's law don't you like?
146 posted on 11/11/2003 1:53:24 PM PST by farmer18th
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To: reflecting
You still are using nothing but innuendo to demean Moore. That is not right, brother.
147 posted on 11/11/2003 1:53:25 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: lugsoul
I think he's done quite alot, myself. He has helped highlight the fact that our judiciary is spinning out of control.
148 posted on 11/11/2003 1:55:01 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: dirtboy
And, in this case, Pryor was following the law as dictated by federal court. I personally disagreed with the ruling, but it's ludicrous to get after Pryor for not following the law.

I'm glad that the federal court didn't order Pryor to take off his clothes and quack like a duck, because I guess we're all required to obey a federal court ruling no matter how ridiculous or how legally unfounded that ruling may be.

149 posted on 11/11/2003 1:56:50 PM PST by usadave
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To: EternalVigilance
"our judiciary is spinning out of control" - you gonna keep saying things like that without answering my question of which part of Thompson's ruling was not required by precedent, or which part of Carnes' opinion was not required by binding precendent? Or do you really believe that lower court judges can defy SCOTUS at will?
150 posted on 11/11/2003 1:56:52 PM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
You really ought to turn off TBN sometime

I don't get television reception here, but I welcome your thoughts on TBN, since you seem to be a fan. I graduated from Stanford in 1983 with a degree in history. Try as I might during my heathen days, I just couldn't get around the manifold presence of Christian faith in the lives of the founders. We're living in the wreckage of their moral monuments and we should look towards the modern history of Europe to see the bitter harvest of abandoning God as the standard. Think on it, friend.
151 posted on 11/11/2003 1:58:20 PM PST by farmer18th
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To: farmer18th
Write them on the door frames of your houses and on your gates

Your house, not everyone elses house and gates. Must you dictate to everyone how they should relate to God? You can do as you choose - write them on your house and your gates. Leave the courthouse and my house alone.

152 posted on 11/11/2003 2:00:14 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: EternalVigilance
I am in total agreement with all you have just said.....but let me offer that the pastors of Alabama were not complacent...thus why did they not ralley to Moore? Why? Why would they go night and day about the lottery just two years ago and step back from Moore? Can you not see?

Men who would sacrifice life and family to see the people of Alabama return to Christ, to see people know God and the blessings of Christianity? Why?

153 posted on 11/11/2003 2:00:17 PM PST by reflecting
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To: lugsoul
I've already answered that question repeatedly, while you continue to ignore the fact that these kinds of rulings are based on nothing but a reading of the First Amendment that sees it as being the exact opposite of its clear words. Again, you've allied yourself with the agenda of the Left to drive Christianity from the public arena.

You and your friends love to talk about precedent, while hypocritically and deceitfully ignoring a couple hundred years of American precedent and the obvious original intent of the Founders of this republic.
154 posted on 11/11/2003 2:00:57 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: farmer18th
The silliness is that you think posting a fragment of a date somehow means our government intended to elevate the Christian God. And the point is that one could just as easily post:

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen" - Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 (signed by John Adams, btw)

155 posted on 11/11/2003 2:00:58 PM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: Looking for Diogenes
In the context of the 1st Amendment, 'law' is considered to include an action or policy.

Well, that's your opinion.

156 posted on 11/11/2003 2:01:36 PM PST by usadave
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To: farmer18th; Catspaw
I graduated from Stanford in 1983 with a degree in history. Try as I might during my heathen days, I just couldn't get around the manifold presence of Christian faith in the lives of the founders.

Call a lawyer and get your tuition money back. You were robbed.

157 posted on 11/11/2003 2:01:38 PM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: lugsoul
"Here's a bit of advice for anyone who is ever before a judge or other decision maker - it is usually not helpful to defiantly tell them they have no power over you BEFORE they issue their ruling."
________________________________________

I do it frequently every time I file a motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction. Get a grip on your smugness.
158 posted on 11/11/2003 2:02:20 PM PST by Texas Federalist
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To: EternalVigilance
Nope. Not even once.
159 posted on 11/11/2003 2:02:33 PM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: lugsoul
You expect intellectual honesty from a guy with a BA in History from Stanford, all while he posts the bilge he put up?
160 posted on 11/11/2003 2:02:39 PM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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