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To: ninenot
I'm not Catholic so have no stake in this, but wouldn't getting rid of the celibacy requirement (or somehow doing it partially, lay priests or something) help with the pedophile issue and the numbers of gay priests?

I know that it's the tradition, but seems to me you may get more quality priests, or at least one that aren't dragging along some sort of weird sexual baggage, if the recruiting pool were opened up.

Just random musings on my part,
LQ
19 posted on 11/08/2003 7:56:00 AM PST by LizardQueen
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To: LizardQueen; ninenot; EternalVigilance; ElkGroveDan
LQ: If the priesthood were opened to marriage there would be several negative consequences.

First and foremost, in the Roman Catholic Church, it would open the floodgates to allow into the Roman rite priesthood, a raft of men with no real vocation who have been impertinently banging on the door and demanding admission to the priesthood on their own terms rather than those of the Church. The National "Catholic" Register is filled with the whining of these chronic malcontents. So are such cesspools of collectve dissent as Call to Action and Voice of the Faithful and their many counerparts.

Just as they do not wish to obey the pope in respect to the traditional vows of the Roman rite, many, many, many do not wish to be in doctrinal submission either. We have ostensibly celibate priests who are rank dissenters now. Their numbers would be substantially increased if there were a general allowance of a married priesthood in the Roman rite and the Church would sustain yet more long-term damage.

The RCC allows married priests in its much smaller Eastern Rites and admits to the priesthood in the Roman Rite married men who have served as clergy of the Episcopalian and/or Lutheran Churches (who must be ordained anew). These are not permitted to marry again after ordination and the apparent reason for the exceptions is one of charity and recognition of pre-existing obligations to wife and children.

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophjile. A homosexual exploiter is a homosexual exploiter is a homosexual exploiter. Some of each are married and some are not. Our basic rule is that homosexuality is an INHERENTLY disordered condition (always Catholic belief) and that no one inclined to homosexuality be admitted to the priesthood (according to orders of the very liberal Pope John XXIII).

Our secular newspapers reveal regularly the failure, particularly in English-speaking countries, and most particularly in the whacko liberal precincts of the leftist AmChurch (American liberal "Catholic" "Church") of Church authorities to successfully prevent the ordination of homosexuals and other perverts just as they gleefully thumb their collective noses at Vatican orthodoxy generally.

Normal men are normal men and do not seek out other men as objects of their sexual desires, must less the newspaper boy or the altar boy. For most of us, we can remember fathers who were not casting a fond glance at the hindquarters of the neighborhood 12-year-old boy or of his twenty-something brother when mom was out of town or otherwise unavailable. Dad married mom because he loved and wanted mom. BARF ALERT: No 12-year-old boy will serve as an adequate substitute. Adultery is not a norm much less so is lavender adultery and even less so is lavender child-molesting adultery.

Whatever Hugh Hefner may imagine himself to think, men who vow lifelong celibacy are neither unrealistic nor warped. Their worship is reserved to God rather than to their body parts or those of others. Somewhere in America is a college student who plays football very well but has decided not to play so that he can concentrate on his engineering studies.

The priesthood is also consistent with an ethic of sacrifice (an important part of the priestly vocation is offering Mass) and Catholics generally see moral merit in individual sacrifice of immediate pleasures. We are famous for not eating meat on Fridays, fasting and abstaining from nourishment to some degree during Lent, et al. That is not a way of life that is encouraged by the Reformation but it IS the Catholic way of life.

30 posted on 11/08/2003 8:30:06 AM PST by BlackElk (The termitehood that is modernism is NOT Catholicism and neither is pseudo-"tradition")
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To: LizardQueen
The Church in America never had any trouble recuiting priests before Vatican II. On the contrary, celibacy requirement included, the seminaries had more applicants than they could turn away. So obviously a change in social attitudes has occured. Catholic families used to take pride in sending sons and daughters to the Church. Nowdays this is less often the case. One reason is the size of families. The acceptance of contraception means that familes are smaller. There is also the deprecation of the role of the priest. Where once the priest was as proud of being a priest as a marine was proud of being a marine, now many are ashamed of their calling. The fall off in the number of priests began in the 1970s because priests no longer sought to recruit young men to replace the. As the numbers fell off, skankier types such as Homosexuals made their way in. Most of the "pedophile" cases involved homosexual priests who were actually hitting on teenagers rather than little children.
74 posted on 11/08/2003 10:34:12 AM PST by RobbyS (XP)
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To: LizardQueen
Welcome to the Catholic wars!!!

The possibility of ordaining men (who are married) to the priesthood has been raised, using the excuse that there are too few priests in the USA.

First, we have the definition of terms: what's "too few?" No one answers that question--this is your first clue.

Secondly, as the numbers will tell you--this 'shortage' of ordinands is not restricted to the Catholic faith: it's all over--Baptists, Lutherans, Greek Orthos--you name it.

Thus we can conclude that the 'shortage' (whatever that really means) is not caused by the celibacy requirement, because none of the OTHER traditions require celibacy, yet THEY don't seem to be getting ministry-recruits, either.

Finally, it is clear from empirical evidence that there are two kinds of seminaries in the USA: ones which are full to bursting, and ones which are full of nothing but hot air. The ones which are full are used by (or exist in) Dioceses in which the Bishop allows no dissent: no screwy Masses, no queers in the Seminary, no nuns dancing in the aisles, and no cute variations on doctrine and dogma.

The Dioceses which just can't find priest-candidates usually are to one extent or the other, heterodox.

That should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Summarily, we have a bunch of liberals who have created a "crisis" and have determined that their "solution" is the only one. Sound familiar? Look at the Dimowit Party for the role model(s).

84 posted on 11/08/2003 11:17:30 AM PST by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: LizardQueen
I'm not Catholic so have no stake in this, but wouldn't getting rid of the celibacy requirement (or somehow doing it partially, lay priests or something) help with the pedophile issue and the numbers of gay priests?

Celibacy has nothing to do with Jesus or God. It was instituted rather late in the game by the Cathlolic Hierarchy to control their vast land holdings in Europe, which were being passed down by Bishops and Cardinals to their heirs.

189 posted on 11/08/2003 10:55:04 PM PST by montag813
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