Posted on 11/07/2003 11:26:22 AM PST by ninenot
Waukesha - Citing fears of increased gun violence, many police chiefs and other officials in Waukesha County said Thursday they oppose legalizing concealed weapons in Wisconsin.
"We're opening the door to problems," Big Bend Police Chief John Hefley said as state lawmakers edged closer permitting residents to carry weapons.
Earlier Thursday, the Assembly had followed the Senate's lead in approving a bill requiring county sheriffs to issue permits allowing qualified applicants to carry concealed handguns or other weapons.
Gov. Jim Doyle has said he will veto any such measure, but legislative proponents are expected to mount a veto override effort.
Some area critics of the bill hope that Waukesha County seizes on an opportunity to opt out of concealed weapons, choosing not to issue that sort of permit to local gun owners, as allowed by current versions of the legislation.
Waukesha police Capt. Mike Babe said he would support that strategy.
"We're opposed to putting any more guns on the streets," Babe said.
But opting out would require the support of Waukesha County Sheriff Dan Trawicki, who has historically been an avid supporter of gun-owner rights. Trawicki was on vacation Thursday and could not be reached for comment.
County Board Chairman James Dwyer of Menomonee Falls said he did not know if there would be enough votes on the County Board to opt out. Doing so would require a two-thirds majority of the 35-member board, although the sheriff could disregard that and continue issuing permits, under the proposed legislation.
Dwyer said he opposes permitting concealed weapons because he believes it creates too much potential for increased gun violence.
"The principle of it, I think, is a problem," he said.
Under measures approved by both the Assembly and Senate, residents 21 and older could apply to their county sheriff for a permit to carry concealed weapons. To qualify, applicants would be required to complete safety training and could not have been convicted of a felony or other serious crime within three years.
Proponents argue that citizens should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect themselves against crime.
Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher said he opposes changing the law.
Bucher said he is most concerned that the proposed legislation would allow concealed weapons in vehicles, putting police officers at risk whenever they make a traffic stop.
He said he has testified before lawmakers against legalizing concealed weapons and still feels that way.
"If I'm sitting in a room with 10 people, and they don't have guns, I feel safer," he said. Of several Waukesha County law enforcement officials interviewed Thursday, none expressed support for concealed weapons.
Brookfield Assistant Police Chief Dean Collins said the bill approved in the Senate would prohibit police officers from checking whether a person has a concealed weapon permit before attempting to arrest that person.
"This lack of intelligence could place officers in serious jeopardy," Collins said.
Menomonee Falls Police Chief Jack Pitrof said, "Any time officers are faced with potential danger, I would be against it."
Capt. Paul Geiszler of the Muskego Police Department said he would like to see Waukesha County opt out of legalized concealed weapons, if the law passes.
Although opting out would not necessarily prohibit local residents from getting permits in other counties, under the current proposal, Geiszler said, he would hope to restrict the proliferation of guns in Waukesha County.
"I'm a cop," he said. "I don't carry a gun off duty."
Hartland Police Chief Robert Rosch said officers undergo extensive training before being allowed to carry weapons. He questioned the wisdom of allowing citizens to carry weapons without similar training.
Rosch said he fears the proposed law would turn simple street fights into deadly violence.
The proposed law changes nothing. Citizens aren't authorized to attack the police by this legislation. The folks that do have the intent to do so, do not get permits to carry weapons. They just carry them to challenge police action. Since Bucher went through several levels of higher education, I have to conclude that he knows this and his statement is a deception to scare the sheep.
I remember him. Seems like just yesterday he was a FReeper.
Whoopty doo!
Most Waukesha County police agencies see a nickel-bag once a night.
Once every 2 years they actually arrest a dealer or grower (yeah, you can raise the stuff here.)
All the rest of their activity is breakins, un-armed robberies, bad checks, shoplifting, and kids busting mailboxes.
There are virtually NO murders, no gunshots, EVER, except during hunting season.
He said he has testified before lawmakers against legalizing concealed weapons and still feels that way.
"If I'm sitting in a room with 10 people, and they don't have guns, I feel safer," he said. Of several Waukesha County law enforcement officials interviewed Thursday, none expressed support for concealed weapons.
Brookfield Assistant Police Chief Dean Collins said the bill approved in the Senate would prohibit police officers from checking whether a person has a concealed weapon permit before attempting to arrest that person.
"This lack of intelligence could place officers in serious jeopardy," Collins said.
Menomonee Falls Police Chief Jack Pitrof said, "Any time officers are faced with potential danger, I would be against it."
Transalation: Anything that makes it less convenient to search the peasantry, NEVERMIND we will already have made them jump through background check hoops that conclusively determines that are NOT CRIMINALS, is bad.
Alternative translation: Shaking down the public for fines and manufacturing probable cause to seize a vehicle will be less comfortable, so this is bad.
"Although opting out would not necessarily prohibit local residents from getting permits in other counties, under the current proposal, Geiszler said, he would hope to restrict the proliferation of guns in Waukesha County."
A real concerned citizen here. He can't force people do render themselves defenseless victims, so he does the next best thing to hinder them. He forces them to go elsewhere for permission to take effective self defense measures.
I'm not too familiar with that area. I'm out in Western WI.
Shilling(D) LaCrosse isn't my rep, but I'm going to write her a letter asking why she wants her constituents to remain defenseless. She's been a vocal opponent of CC. At every opportunity she tells the story of how her parents were killed in the Brown's Chicken massacre in Palatine, IL. They eventually caught the bad guys. There was absolutely zero thanks to be handed the police. They screwed things up from time zero. A fallout of one of the bad guys and his girlfriend a decade, or so later, led to the arrests and convictions. The girlfriend snitched.
5 people were killed after the bad guys entered the restarant at closing and held the place up. They didn't want witnesses, so they took ma, pa and the young workers into the cooler and killed then one at a time. It was vicious and grusome.
Itch Shilling says guns beget guns. What she really is after is making sure everyone is as helpless as her parents and the young adults in the restaurant that night. She's not concerned about them, or their friends and relatives. Only that her wacky world view is imposed on everyone.
All these liberal violence arguments amount to is the protection of the vicious, lowly bad guys and their ability to rob, kill, maim and generate widespread suffering.
now that is stupid
Bucher's email to me:
There is no statistical evidence, it is common knowledge the most dangerous time for on an officer is at a traffic stop. Most police shootings do occur at a traffic stop. Domestic violence calls is a another one. Just so you know, in every police shooting I have had (some were killed others injured) the squad car was parked at an angle to provide cover for the officer. Unfortunately at close range it provides nothing. I am not opposed to the legislation overall, I have however requested that they exclude carrying a concealed weapon in a motor vehicle. They have not done so. As the bill is currently drafted, it is flawed. I am not opposed to citizens carrying a concealed weapon. I am opposed to the bill AS CURRENTLY drafted. I have given them suggestions as to how to fix the problems. They have not. I hope this clarifies my position as well as my comments to the reporter. Thanks for your comments however.
That's HIS grammar, spelling, and paragraph construction, folks.
Note the sidestepping---
Of course, I emailed him back again requesting SPECIFICALLY the stats on LICENSED CCW holders who assaulted police officers.
But you get the idea: Bucher wasn't happy that the Legislature didn't listen to him--so he's stamping his feet.
He's just one of the Tom, Dick and Harry crowd. When they all get done you won't even be able to have a gun when you're dead center and at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.
Professor John Lott, who analyzed FBI crime statistics for all 3,054 American counties from 1977 to 1994, reported, “No [CCW] permit holders have ever shot at, let alone killed, a police officer; instead, permit holders have on occasion saved the lives of police officers who were being attacked by criminals.”
A check of the Million Mom March’s collection of articles on crimes committed by CCW holders listed only three police officers being injured by gunshot wounds delivered by a single CCW holder ("Suspect No Stranger to Guns, Explosives"; Hartford Courant, September 4, 1998). All three officers survived. Of note is that the CCW holder was a former police officer.
In light of this information, LEOs have absolutely no justification to fear being shot by a CCW permit holder.
...but not from making stupid remarks, as did our DA.
From the DA's perspective, his job is easier as long as every shooting is committed by criminals against innocent people. When innocent people start shooting criminals is where his job gets tricky, because now he has to deal with the press, and the criminal's family, and the criminal's community holding candlelight vigils for their thrice-convicted rapist, demanding justice be done by prosecuting the innocent shooter who wouldn't lay down and take her raping like every good woman should. And he's got to deal with the uproar when, after the attempted rape victim / shooter demands a jury trial, he has to drop the charges.
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