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Colonel West...you've got my back any time
Self | 6 Nov 2003 | Jeff Head

Posted on 11/06/2003 4:44:20 AM PST by Jeff Head

The following is Lt. Col. Allen B. West's own candid comment regarding the situation he faced in Iraq, as reported by the Washington Dispatch on November 5, 2003:

"I have never denied what happened and have always been brutally honest," said Col. West. "I accept responsibility for the episode, but my intent was to scare this individual and keep my soldiers out of a potential ambush. There were no further attacks from that town. We ... apprehended two other conspirators (a third fled town) and found out one of the conspirators was the father of a man we had detained for his Saddam Fedeyeen affiliation. "
Colonel West takes personal responsibility for his actions. He makes no bones about it, he threatened this Iraqi spy bodliy harm to get information from him. And that is what he was, a spy working within the Iraqi Police Force that has been established and supported by the coalition authority. As a spy, under the so-called rules of war, I believe he could have shot the man. Perhaps that is an angle that should be explored.

In either case, Colonel West's actions no doubt saved the lives of Americans...the lives he is principally responsible for...and that was his motivation.

He understood that while he may have violated the rules (and he admits to and takes responsibility for this as well)...he also understood he was going to do what had to be done, in a war zone, to save the lives of the men under his command.

The rules were written by men and women sitting in safe seats far away from combat and the brutal reality of the moment. For the most part they are good rules and should not be violated. But there are times when the SHTF that you have to do what you must to save the lives of those you are responsible for, American lives, and accomplish the mission. Colonel West knew his greater responsibility and he performed it, regardless of personal cost. The trait of a true leader in my book.

President Truman incinerated tens of thousands of Japanese to save hundreds of thousands of Americans...and in so doing he also saved millions of Japanese. In today's world and PC nomenclature this might be considered a war crime...a violation of the "rules". But back then it was heralded by the soldiers as a God-send...and by Americans back home as what had to be done to end the war. People who had seen for themsleves the cold reality of four years of World War.

That generation is dying out and it seems we have forgottent their experiences and the lessons.

The reality is, that by scaring this man in the fashion he did...West not only saved American lives...he saved the lives of Iraqis as well.

God bless you Colonel West...you've got my back any time!

Charlie Mike.

Jeff


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allenwest; colonelwest; combat; iraqifreedom; patriotism; valor; warzone; westforcongress; wildwest
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To: Eastbound
By going into Iraq in the manner we have done (ie. uniliaterally) that is exactly what we are doing, smoking the hive.

I pray we will have the will as a people to see it through...no only there, but in the other places we smoke out by doing so. otherwise, we will be in danger of experiencing events like I try and war of in my DRAGON'S FURY SERIES.

321 posted on 11/11/2003 9:55:07 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: archy
No you did it.

Nothing in the language can be stated that is not a paraphrase of something someone else once said.

It was your malicious imagination that twisted my words and caused you to post pictures of Nazis next to a quote from me.

But it sure was telling of your nature to try to weasel out of it. Funny, how the internet gives some people the guts to say or imply anything they want, but the most gutless ones can't even take responsibility for that.
322 posted on 11/11/2003 9:56:01 AM PST by Ispy4u (I bet that puts a bee in your bonnet.)
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To: Jeff Head
Sometimes it's hard.
VERY hard.
My old unit's Cap was a humorless type who thoroughly enjoyed screwing over the troops any chance he got.
The LTC West's superiors remind me of the Cap in the worst of ways.
But that's all a different story, long and boring, and not inline with what needs to be done.

The people pushing this courts martial seem to have lost perspective on just what was risked, and just what was saved by the LTC's actions.
323 posted on 11/11/2003 9:56:59 AM PST by Darksheare (Proving that there are alternate perceptions of surreality Since Oct 2, 2000.)
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To: Jeff Head
Jeff -- thanks for the heads up. Sorry for being so late to this thread.

Here's hoping that cool heads prevail and that Col. West is allowed to live out his life in the honorable way he deserves. Agree with you....he can have my six anytime.

324 posted on 11/11/2003 9:58:43 AM PST by Al B.
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To: Jeff Head
My son was the fastest 400 meter runner 2 years straight in the county, 10th and 11th grade. 2nd in state same years. Didn't run in senior year.
325 posted on 11/11/2003 10:00:55 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Darksheare
perspective on just what was risked, and just what was saved by the LTC's actions.

We must maintain and remember that perspective.

326 posted on 11/11/2003 10:02:42 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Triple
The original or the revised.
327 posted on 11/11/2003 10:03:03 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Al B.
Here's hoping that cool heads prevail and that Col. West is allowed to live out his life in the honorable way he deserves

I roger and voice a firm Amen to that.

328 posted on 11/11/2003 10:03:59 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Triple
Sorry I see which one you're talking about now. Thank you and thank our vets.
329 posted on 11/11/2003 10:05:54 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Jeff Head
Agreed.
He risked alot by even trying to get info out of teh guy.
And for all he knew, the info was leading him into the ambush he was trying to avoid.
That's quite alot of guts there, more guts than some behind the brassy collars have.

330 posted on 11/11/2003 10:07:04 AM PST by Darksheare (Proving that there are alternate perceptions of surreality Since Oct 2, 2000.)
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To: Flurry
My son who graduated last year had a great year as an individual runner and as a relay runner. His relay teams (4X4 and medley) placed 4th and 2nd in state respectively. He placed 5th in state in the 400 individually as well.

His ninth grade brother is working to immulate his brother once he gets in high school.

331 posted on 11/11/2003 10:08:29 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
I don't know what LTC West's goals are at this point. Continuing his career would be difficult, given that he was relieved of command and what's probably coming in his OER.

The outlines of a plea bargain are pretty obvious - retirement with pay in exchange for a drop of criminal charges.

Your comments allude to an issue I've not seen discussed on any of the threads. The common law recognizes a defense called duress or necessity where the defendant can be acquited if he shows he had to commit a crime to prevent a greater harm. The requirements are pretty strict and the defense is not often used, but this might be such a case. I don't know if the military courts recognize the defense, but they often follow case law from civilian courts if there is no military precedent.

I am sympathetic to the other point of view. It is important that commanders set an example and do not ignore orders or mistreat prisoners. So, I'm inclined to think some penalty is appropriate, but we haven't heard what the prosecutors think they have on LTC West other than his own statement.

332 posted on 11/11/2003 10:09:55 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: Jeff Head
My son ran anchor on relay. He was best if someone had a 10-20 yard lead when he took the baton.
333 posted on 11/11/2003 10:11:20 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: colorado tanker
We shall see. I beleive his goals were above reproach, but the trial will bring that out.

I also believe that in the time-critical, combat environment he was in, that he made an appropriate, albeit difficult, decision. He chose to put himself at risk in order to get the needed information and achieved a successful mission which minimized US losses.

If all of that comes out as being the case, then Lt. Col. West, no matter what the verdict is, is a certifiable hero in my book and worthy of our respect, honor and praise.

Thanks for your rational and reasoned discourse on the matter. We all need a whole lot more of that.

334 posted on 11/11/2003 10:15:57 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Flurry
Yep...I know exactly what you mean there. Nothing like that challenge to get the adrenaline going and to inspire a super effort.
335 posted on 11/11/2003 10:18:00 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: archy
I like this in your FR home page:
TERRORIST WARNING! ALERT!

"We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."

--Thomas Borge, Nicaragua Interior Minister as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985
It applies very well to one of the important considerations I explore in my Dragon's Fury Series of novels
336 posted on 11/11/2003 10:22:58 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Ispy4u
Wrong again.

Element number four of aggravated assault: "(iv) That the weapon, means, or force was used in a manner likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm." The Manual explians further: "A weapon is dangerous when used in a manner likely to produce death or grievous bodily injury." For example, assault with an unloaded weapon is not an aggravated assault whether or not the victim believes the gun is loaded. Shooting a weapon into a disposal barrel is not an action likely to produce death or grievous bodily injury.

Please read the Manual for Courts Martial. Yes the entire thing. Sometimes you have to do more than skim a statute to get the whole story.

337 posted on 11/11/2003 10:34:22 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: colorado tanker
Lets just put the whole thing here and quit parsing. [brackets denote my comments]

From UCMJ Article 128
(4) Aggravated assault.

(a) Assault with a dangerous weapon or other means of force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm. [This applies to the situation]

(i) That the accused attempted to do, offered to do, or did bodily harm to a certain person; [He did offer, so this applies]

(ii) That the accused did so with a certain weapon, means, or force; [yep, certain weapon]

(iii) That the attempt, offer, or bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence; and [again offer, unlawful force]

(iv) That the weapon, means, or force was used in a manner likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm. [offered to be used, in a manner convincing the victim death was the likely result, otherwise he wouldn't have talked. If LTC West had threatened to hit him in the head with the handle this would not apply.]

(Note: When a loaded firearm was used, add the following element)

(v) That the weapon was a loaded firearm. [add this too]

I asked you to please read the whole thing. You tried, I guess.
338 posted on 11/11/2003 10:48:37 AM PST by Ispy4u (I bet that puts a bee in your bonnet.)
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To: Jeff Head
BUMP!
339 posted on 11/11/2003 11:08:47 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell (If you seen yourself as other people do, you'd laugh too.)
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To: Ispy4u
Quit trying to play lawyer. The brackets are yours, not the Manual's. If you knew anything about military justice you would know that every element of an offense has to be proven to convict. It's not a smorgasbord. On LTC West's statement the fourth element is lacking, hence no conviction. Your lynch mob is overcharging what is at best a simple assault as an aggravated assault.

Plus, you have not considered the defenses of defense of a third person, R.C.M. 916(e)(5) or duress, 916(h):

"It is a defense to any offense except killing an innocent person that the accused's participation in the offense was caused by a reasonable apprehension that the accused or another innocent person would be immediately killed or would immediately suffer serious bodily injury if the accused did not commit the act. The apprehension must reasonably continue throughout the commission of the act. If the accused has any reasonable opportunity to avoid committing the act without subjecting the accused or another innocent person to the harm threatened, this defense shall not apply."

If LTC West's statement is correct on the facts, he has an outstanding chance of acquittal, if this case gets past the Art. 32.

You just couldn't read the whole Manual, could you?

340 posted on 11/11/2003 11:15:52 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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