[veryone]

got an answer from C-Span's Capitol Questions concerning this vote and House rules...

My question:

Two nights ago, the House voted in favor of suspending the rules and passing a bill. It was a voice vote, and there were only about 20 Congressmen present on the floor at the time. (The bill was H.R. 4210.) How can a bill be allowed to pass when so few Representatives are present? What are the rules concerning a quorum being required? If the motion to reconsider is immediately tabled, does that mean that the vote is final even though only 20 members were present?
C-Span's answer:

Suspension of the rules takes a 2/3 vote to pass, whether it's by roll-call [a certain discernible number] or by voice vote [judgment of the chair that 2/3 said "aye."]
Members may choose to pass anything by voice vote. They have several procedures to call upon if they wish to get a roll call vote.

Only roll call votes prove the absence of a quorum. If the absence of a quorum [218 in the House; 51 in the Senate] is established, the vote would be invalid.

Although the written rules of the House and the Senate both require that a quorum be present at all times for business to take place, the reality is that it rarely is except for roll-call votes.

This practice is known as a "presumed quorum." In other words, a quorum is presumed to be present unless it is pointed out that it is not. That would be done by either a point of order that no quorum is present or by the numerical evidence of a roll call vote not adding up to a quorum.

Members can easily make a point of order -- and do, often -- that no quorum is present. Then business is suspended until a quorum materializes. But the quorum requirement must be enforced from the floor -- individual Members must feel strongly enough about it to make the point of order. Otherwise the presumed quorum continues.

As for the motion to reconsider, yes, if it is tabled the vote is final and cannot be reopened for lack of a quorum or for any other reason. See: http://www.c-span.org/questions/weekly85.htm

Best Wishes, Ilona Nickels
C-SPAN Resident Congressional Scholar

So, a bill can be passed no matter how many (or how few) Representatives are present on the floor at the time. As long as nobody present objects to the lack of quorum, and as long as there's no recorded vote proving the lack of a quorum, the vote is final.

[weaponeer]

So, a bill can be passed no matter how many (or how few) Representatives are present on the floor at the time. As long as nobody present objects to the lack of quorum, and as long as there's no recorded vote proving the lack of a quorum, the vote is final.

That is simply amazing. I consider myself well informed in things political, but I never knew of this. So, as long as no one points out that the "rule" about quorums is being violated, our elected pols (we call them "law-makers", even) just close their eyes to the fraud. This just makes my blood boil.

I know there are dozens of CEOs, CFOs, and other company financial hacks (maybe soon to be joined by Martha) that are behind bars for having pulled off much lessor "fraud" than this. This just lessens what little respect I ever had left for our elected polititians, including the Pubs.

[El Gato]

So, a bill can be passed no matter how many (or how few) Representatives are present on the floor at the time. As long as nobody present objects to the lack of quorum, and as long as there's no recorded vote proving the lack of a quorum, the vote is final.

Sounds similar to "Taxation without representation" doesn't it? Except that in this case they'll wait until later to take even more of your money. Right now they want your guns. They keep this up, and they may get them.

[sergeantdave]

So, if two house members get together and no one objects that a quorum is not present they can pass a law to throw all Jews and Christians in concentration camps.

Somehow, I'm not believing this

[afraidfortherepublic]

Outrageous. Congressman Sensenbrenner is my Congressman, but I am increasingly unhappy with him. No Republican will run against him, but he will have 3 Democrat opponents in the next election.

I don't know what to say about this development, since there is no such thing as a plastic gun. It is a typical piece of Sensenbrenner legislation -- get all hot and bothered about something that isn't even pertinent. But he's missing in action on the important stuff. Notice that he wasn't present at the signing of the Partiial Birth Abortion Ban today. He promised me personally (in front of a large group of people at one of his Town Hall meetings) that he would see that there was an investigation of Janet Reno's Justice Department and the INS after what they did to Elian Gonzalez and his family on Easter Eve. NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH. He was only concerned about the "appearance of the picture" that ws splashed all over the papers.

[templar]

So, a bill can be passed no matter how many (or how few) Representatives are present on the floor at the time.

Remember the Brady bill? We went to bed one night with the news declaring it dead and woke up the next mornning with it passed. Thanks to notable Republican leader and failed presidetial candidate Bob Dole.

[Squantos]

So who was the GOP polidiot assigned to babysit / guard the floor that day ? If such crap is gonna happen in the dark of night then at any given time there needs to be at least three GOP congresscritters present if even one Socialist Rat is near the floor of congress to prevent such backdoor BS.

Stay Safe !