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From "The Abrahms Report" -Schiavo segment- Thursday, 06 nov 2003

Dan Abrahms: Maybe not since Bush v. Gore, has an issue so divide the state of Florida. The case of Terri Schiavo, at the age of 25, she collapsed, suffering cardiac arrest, that left her in, what most doctors describe, as a vegetative state. Schiavo has been living with the aid of a feeding tube ever since. Her husband Michael says it was her wish NOT to live like this. Terri's FAMILY disagrees. They STILL believe that THERAPY might allow Terri to lead a better life.

Abrahms: After a bitter court battle, Michael Schiavo won a bid to remove his wife's feeding tube on October 15th. Six days later, Florida's Governor Jeb Bush stepped in, and Terri's law was born.

(file footage)Gov.Bush: Its very hard for me to be part of something where we sit by idly and allow someone to be STARVED to death. Now, if she, if based on the court testimony, she wanted to not be on LIFE SUPPORT, that is different than wishing to starve to death.

Abrahms: Terri's law is now being challenged in court on a number of grounds, among them, ahh that the legislature should not be STEPPING on the courts by creating this law. Terri's parents and brother say the issue is pretty simple:

(father)Bob Schindler: If he loved her, he'd see that she got BETTER, at least I would.

Abrahms: With us tonight to update us on the latest legal rounds from Tampa, Shindler family attorney, Pat Anderson. And from Clearwater Florida, is George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo. Thank you both very much for being on the program. I appreciate it. [both laywers acknowledge]

Abrahms: Alright Ms.Anderson, let me start with you. Just so we're clear on the facts here, your clients position is, that they don't BELIEVE that Terri EVER expressed the desire NOT to live like this... Correct?

Anderson: Terri had 12 years of Catholic schooling, including 4 years at an ALL-GIRL Catholic high school in Philadelphia. And she was attending mass at the time of her collapse. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Terri, as a 26 year old, young woman, would EVER have expressed a desire to ahh, KILL herself by STARVATION.

Abrahms: But highly unlikely is different from saying, you don't believe it. I mean, your clients simply DON'T BELIEVE Mr. Schiavo, and there was a couple of other people who testified to it as well, You don't believe those witnesses, and you don't believe Mr.Schiavo. Correct?

Anderson: We DO not believe... the parents and her brother and sister don't believe that Terri ever expressed a WISH to die. That she ever expressed any abhorrance to living as a disabled person. And thats all she is.

Abrams: And Mr.Felos, the courts though, have basically sided with Mr.Schiavo, have they not?

Felos: The courts FOUND that its Terri's wish not to be kept alive artificially. They FOUND that she said to Michael and others, "No tubes for me... I don't want to be kept alive artificially. I don't want to linger in this condition." and the court heard both sides, and found that these were her wishes.

Abrahms: Why didn't he TELL the family, until many years later, about this wish. I mean, it was 1990 when she collapses, and apparently he didn't TELL the parents and the brother of this wish, until MANY years later?

Felos: Well, he mentioned it in 1993, when the Schindlers first sued to remove him as guardian, and that effort failed, and they took his deposition, and he testified to these matters back in 1993, over ten years ago.

Abrahms: But she's been sitting there, on a, you know, with assistance, for three YEARS, and he doesn't mentioned it?

Anderson: Dan, in 1993, in that deposition he said he could NEVER take the FEEDING TUBE out. He said he would never DO that. Now, he acknowledged that he was willing to let her die of an INFECTION, by withholding antibiotics, but he said, oh he could NEVER take the feeding tube out.

Abrahms: Well, he didn't say WILLING to let her die, but-

Anderson: No, No, he had DONE that. He said he expected that to happen.

Abrahms: Let me let Mr.Felos answer this... go ahead, Mr.Felos...

Felos: Yea, but how can you criticize Mr.Shiavo ten years ago, for holding out the same hope that the parents say that they have now, 13 years later? ... I mean he, he for years, believed that Terri COULD get better, and tried valiently to help her get better, experimental treatments, and therapies he did that for a NUMBER of years.

Abrahms: And Ms.Anderson, thats a point that I wanted to ask YOU about. That is that the infer- ... you don't dispute that in the initial years, he was, in many ways, the MODEL husband... coming... switching careers, so he could become a nurse, so he could better take care of her, going to the hospital all the time, basically LIVING there. You would agree to THAT, would you not?

Anderson: I would agree that she has had NO THERAPY since the FALL of 1991. He has not done ONE THING for her, therapy-wise, since THAT time. He got the MONEY from the medical malpractice judgement and, at the beginning of 1993, he put a "Do Not Resusitate" order on her charts, and then WITHHELD antibiotics, just a couple of months after that, That's what I would agree to.

Anderson: I would agree that he didn't ALLOW her teeth to be cleaned for SEVEN years, and that he STILL won't let get her WHEELCHAIR fixed so she can go outside. YES, he was the MODEL husband, as long as it was going to be argued to a medical malpractice jury, that he needed money to take CARE of her.

Abrahms: And Mr.Felos, your position is... that the parents wanted the money, correct?

Felos: Look, he's been the model husband for THIRTEEN years. Whenever, you know, these charges we've heard over and over again. The COURT heard them, and the appellate court in this case said that, Terri is BLESSED with a loving husband who's done his UTMOST to take care of her. And the fact is, that the courts have FOUND, when somebody's cerebral cortex is destroyed and gone, there is NO therapy that can help her. We don't KNOW how to create a brain, and unfortunately ahh, there is nothing that can be done to help Terri.

Abrahms: Very quickly Mr.Felos, where do we stand in the ahh, the legal wrangling right now?

Felos: Well, the case between the parents and theee ahhh, the husband is OVER, in that the feeding tube was ORDERED to be removed. And now, we're suing to have this law declared unconstitutional. We're in the circuit court, the trial court here locally. The Governor is trying to avoid a day of reconing on the, on the merits, He's trying to dismiss it on procedural grounds, that won't work. And eventually, this law is GOING to be declared unconstitutional.

Abrahms: Ms.Anderson, ten seconds on the legal wrangling...

Anderson: Ah, he's not ACCURATE on what's going on. It's not OVER between the parents and Mr. Schiavo. I have a petition to remove him as guardian, and Mr.Felos was not IN court yesterday. The judge Greer ruled that that can GO forward, so there's going to be discovery, and ultimately there's gonna be a TRIAL as to whether or not he's a fit guardian.

Abrahms: This is a ahh, a horrible story, and ahh, anyway, Pat Anderson, George Felos, Thank you very much for coming on the program. I appreciate it.

Anderson: Thanks Dan,

Felos: You're welcome.

[Transcripted for education and discussion purposes only, not guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Both lawyers were courteous and did not talk over each other]

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Recent interviews/excerpts:
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"Hannity and Colmes" - Tuesday 10-14-03 --> (Terri's father) Bob Schindler: "MONEY and FOUL PLAY"

"On the Record with Greta" - Friday 10-24-03 --> Forensic Pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden: "Potassium imbalance UNLIKELY - HEALTHY heart - NECK TRAUMA"

"At Large with Geraldo Rivera" Sunday 10-26-03 --> author Christopher Darden and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz: "You have eternity to be dead; You only have a limited amount of time to live"

"Hannity and Colmes" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (father) Bob Schindler and (neurologist) Dr. William Hammesfahr: "She absolutely CAN be rehabilitated -clearly NEVER had heart attack -Emergency room: damaged neck"

"On the Record with Greta" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (attorney) Pat Anderson: "BIG FIGHT -attempted STRANGULATION"

"On the Record with Greta" - Tuesday 10-28-03 --> (attorney) Pat Anderson and (brother) Bobby Schindler: "failing marriage -DIVORCE imminent -Potassium explained":

"Hardball with with Chris Matthews" - Wednesday 10-29-03 --> (pro-Terri attorney for ACLJ) Jay Sekulow and (anti-Terri attorney) Joe Tacopina: "Matthews: I think the human issue here is... her eyes flickering... I think she's ALIVE":

"Larry King Live" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (husband) Michael Schiavo[barf alert]: THEY get money from the right wing ACTIVISTS - "Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die" - [later] King: Would you take one[lie detector test]? - No

"The Abrams Report" - Monday 11-03-03 --> (Commentary) almost entirely pro-husband

"O'Reilly Factor" - Wednesday 11-05-03 --> (former "Vegetative State" patient) Kate Adamson: Being starved to death is EXTREMELY painful "It was SHEER torture!" - took her THREE MONTHS of ACUTE REHAB to snap out
Her website says: We stand behind Terri Schindler!

"The Abrams Report" - Thursday 11-06-03 --> (pro-Terri attorney) Pat Anderson and (pro-death attorney) George Felos: "Felos: Michael is a MODEL husband" - Anderson:"Terri got NO REHAB after $award$":

Abrahmsreport@msnbc.com

Transcripted

"The Abrams Report" - Thursday 11-06-03 --> (pro-Terri attorney) Pat Anderson and (pro-death attorney) George Felos: "Felos: Michael is a MODEL husband" - Anderson:"Terri got NO REHAB after $award$":

>> Felos: The courts FOUND that its Terri's wish not to be kept alive artificially. They FOUND that she said to Michael and others, "No tubes for me... I don't want to be kept alive artificially. I don't want to linger in this condition." and the court heard both sides, and found that these were her wishes.

A crock of Felos droppings. There is not one bit of admissible evidence that she said anything. Absolutely she did not use THESE words regardless of what this comatose court "found." Note the present tense, the lack of "if." George has her speaking as if cognizant of her condition and choosing to pull her tubes -- but to say that, she couldn't be brain damaged.

THANKS for your work on that. SNIP:

Felos: Yea, but how can you criticize Mr.Shiavo ten years ago, for holding out the same hope that the parents say that they have now, 13 years later? ... I mean he, he for years, believed that Terri COULD get better, and tried valiently to help her get better, experimental treatments, and therapies he did that for a NUMBER of years.

Here's what's been bothering me -- HOW can Schiavo DENY her parents the same hope he had? Why work with someone for "X" amount of time only, then say, "that's it, you're not getting any more treatment" and letting them stagnate for the next 10 years?

Get Terri OUTTA there already!

"He's been a loving husband for 13 years" as if this is enough to kill Terri, because her husband has had to endure these 13 years.

"There's nothing that can be done to help Terri" as if being disabled means one deserves to be killed.

This man is so very sick and evil.

Model husband? At least 2 mistresses (even in the early years) 2, and maybe 3 illegitimate kids, withholding therapy, withholding medicine....yeah sounds like every woman's dream guy.

I think Felos opted out of the class, "Being Human 101." He doesn't sound all that bright either.

I hadn't read the transcript of the second Abrams show. THAT WENT VERY WELL FOR TERRI's SIDE! Thank God! Felos and the HINO are starting to look like the monsters they are. FINALLY!!!