[Sir Gawain]

-

[Alberta's Child]

. . . the prospects of losing 500,000 American lives to obliterate a 1,000,000 strong army of psychotics in their own area of the world are going to present enormous difficulty.

This just about sums it all up, doesn't it. Today, it's even worse -- the prospects of losing 500 American lives to obliterate an army of 1 million in their own area of the world doesn't sound like a very good trade-off.

[Killborn]

Ho Chi Minh is Vietnam's Hitler. He killed more Vietnamese than the Americans could ever did, women, children, and other innocents.

I'm sure he's getting his just rewards in the pit of flames.

I don't know much about McNamara but now that I know about his grevious Vietnamese butt kissing and pro-Cilnton spin, I hate his guts.

He needs a cell next to the JAWS (John A. Walker and his gang of treasonous spies) Clan.

[onedoug]

I believe we won the Vietnam War.

[neverdem]

BUMP

When I came back from Viet-Nam my political bent was for anarchy.

[VxH]

>>"We Cannot Be Defeated"

>>The British lost 4,500,000 men in self-destructive tactics which
>>were a declaration that they would not be defeated.
>>However the terrible cost they paid would eventually
>>send much of a generation to graves.

...

>>I read accounts of actions in Afghanistan and Iraq,
>>and I am appalled. I can't imagine what these kids
>>or the military think they are doing over there.
>>Basically, they are helpless.


What price, arrogance?

Ivan is smiling.

[fourdeuce82d]

Sorry, I go to this part and had to quit:

A relatively few cannon loaded with grape would cut such groups down like wheat. Therefore, Napoleon conquered all in his path until his armies froze to death in the harsh Russian winter — a mistake repeated by Hitler some years later.

Guy7 has no idea what he's talking about- napoleon did not owe his success to the use of grapeshot, and he lost the bul of his men in the russian invasion during the SUMMER, not the winter.

Napoleon's, and other artillery of the period, suffered from some difficulties. They suffered from lack of mobility and slow rates of fire.

uhh...yeah, realatively speaking...but you're compeltely missing the point that Napoleon took steps to increase the mobility of his guns, so they could be moved about the battlefield, and brought to bear at critical points.

Again, the guy doesn't have a clue.

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt

[fourdeuce82d]

Had I been there with a decent rifle instead of one of our plastic pea-shooters, when one of these clowns bent over to pick up another rock he's get a new butthole entering in the approximate region near where nature originally installed one, then exiting out the top of his head. By the time his buddy who had been egging him on in this enterprise turned his head to find out the reason his pal grunted, a second bullet would already be halfway on the path toward his cruller.

Goodness, a genius level military historian, and a super-sniper as well!! What a neato guy, to be able to hit targets with a "decent rifle" at over 1500 meters away!

Who is this dildo, and why should we listen to any of his babblings?

[Constantine XIII]

bump for later consumption!

[Charles Martel]

The portion about Rommel is quite timely. Exactly sixty-one years ago (November 4, 1942), Rommel Began the "Great Retreat".

After losing the final and most famous battle at El Alamein, Egypt, General Field Marshall Erwin Rommel disobeyed Hitler's orders and began his five-month retreat. The grueling twelve-day battle had been a tragicomedy of errors for the Axis powers. In fact, when the battle began, Rommel was at a mountain resort in Austria, recovering from liver and blood-pressure problems. He arrived two days late, only to find his panzer army out-manned almost two-to-one by British General Bernard L. Montgomery's crew of 195,000 soldiers. Rommel also realized that food was running short and only seven issues of gasoline remained to supply his hundreds of vehicles. Weakened by constant British air attacks and a dearth of supplies, Rommel radioed Hitler of his intention to retreat on November 3. Hitler denied him with this rather unrealistic response: "It would not be the first time in history that the stronger will has triumphed over the enemy's strong battalions. You can show your troops no other road than to victory or death." Rommel was stunned. While the British army continued pummeling his troops, he fumed. He finally ordered a retreat in mid-afternoon of the next day, without Hitler's approval. But the damage of delaying retreat had been costly. Rommel later admitted that his obedience to Hitler's "victory or death" order was his one mistake of the battle.

- www.HistoryChannel.com

[Iris7]

RLK is reasonably correct in general but oversimplifies terribly. The piece on Hitler is actually quite good considering how few words he uses.

MacNamara and Johnson were evil without any mitigation. America's greatests enemies of their generation. That Johnson was elected to office proves the bankruptcy of American "democracy".

There are some who learn from their experiences, defeats, and disappointments, even when it turns out what they know is true just ain't so. Not Johnson and MacNamara!! We call this ability Johnson and MacNamara lack "intelligence". Patton and MacArthur had it, but Eisenhower was comparatively a dunderhead. As MacArthur described him, "the best clerk I ever had."

I could go on and lecture boringly on human nature, and loose my audience completely, because I rarely learn from my foolishness very well, and continue to act as if I knew what I was doing when I on some level know I don't!! Human nature, amazing indeed!!!

[Mr. Thorne]

bump

[Charles Martel]

Patton was very wealthy. After the war he enlisted the aid of an engineer by the name of Cristie in Peoria to help him design and build his own advanced idea of a tank. His design worked so well that the Japanese military used his design years later in WWII to good effect.

Hmmm. The Japanese? I Could've sworn it was the Russian T-34 which was based on Cristie's design.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.."WE WERE SOLDIERS" -
The Movie

http://www.WeWereSoldiers.com

---

'WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE & YOUNG' - The Book, The Website


http://www.lzxray.com

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET


Battle of IA DRANG-1965 Photos:


-Lt. Col. HAL G. MOORE's actual Smile of Victory, IA DRANG's Landing Zone Falcon

-Sgt/Maj. BASIL L. PLUMLEY at Pleiku during the fight at IA DRANG's Landing Zone Albany



~RONNIE GUYER PHOTO COLLECTION~


http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm



Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer / Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965, Landing Zone Falcon, IA DRANG S-1 Personnel Clerk, MOORE-PLUMLEY's Radioman, Driver, Orderly up to the IA DRANG Campaign


NEVER FORGET

[y2k_free_radical]

WOW-THANKS

[ImpBill]

I don't know if RLK writes professionally or not, but this is one of the best, and in-depth missives I have read concerning the deep and obscure factors that lead to America's defeat in Viet Nam. I have been troubled for years concerning that ignoble event, in which I participated, and without going into any whining commentary, have lived through many difficulties in both my personal and professional life in the aftermath of that period in my life.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for posting this and if you have personal contact with RLK please extend my sincere gratitude to him.

"... it was said the men fought for each other(hits the nail on the head) is the closest that could be said to thinking and stating the unthinkable. It implied a justifiable loss of faith and respect for the chain of command and the American political leadership. The American men were alone betrayed and abandoned. They fought to survive incompetence and betrayal."

"The lack of emotional and other healing for many Nam vets, and for the nation in general, has been the result of being asked to believe unbelievable lies devised by the architects of the failure and betrayal as the mode of therapy. That is precisely the opposite direction to go for healthy healing, not pathological denial, to occur. Healing will require ending that lie."

Says it all.

Thank you again.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

...a personal journey:


WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE...& YOUNG'...4 FREEDOM (The Thread)


http://www.Freerepublic.com/forum/a39626542519c.htm

[Junior]

The British and French then developed and implemented their own machine guns rendering German infantry frontal attacks impossible. The result was a stalemate of armies opposite each other in trenches with none able to leave without being mowed down.

Patton may have been a student of military history, but this fellow is not. Both the British and French had machineguns before the advent of the Great War (though not as many per battalion as the Germans). Indeed, the British adopted the Maxim gun in 1884 -- 30 years before the outbreak of WWI.