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To: betty boop
VR, intelligent design theory and creationist theory are not -- let me repeat that, NOT -- the same theory

Insofar as ID invokes a creator, it is not inaccurate, I think, to describe it as a creationist theory - failing to specify who the creator might be does not obviate the fact that ID requires a creator of some sort. ID is, in that case, a specific example under the general heading of "creationist theory". Of course, there are other theories besides ID that invoke a creator, and might also be fairly described as "creationist" theories.

103 posted on 11/04/2003 9:01:58 AM PST by general_re ("I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.")
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To: general_re; betty boop
Er, I beg to differ.

Panspermia and creative universal consciousness (both of which fall under intelligent design theory) neither require the person of a single creator.

Conversely, conventional science itself (without a hint of creationism or intelligent design) points more directly to a single Creator in that it has concluded the universe (or multi-verse) had a beginning.

106 posted on 11/04/2003 9:11:05 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: general_re; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; js1138; VadeRetro; marron; RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry
Insofar as ID invokes a creator, it is not inaccurate, I think, to describe it as a creationist theory - failing to specify who the creator might be does not obviate the fact that ID requires a creator of some sort.

Where have you seen ID specifically invoke a creator? Certainly to speak of intelligence implies mind, consciousness. But ID does not specify any particular mind. It looks at the design, not the designer. Period.

Anyone with eyes and a willingness to look can see that nature is replete with symmetries, patterning effects, regularities that it appears would have been impossible to generate randomly. Even if it could be shown that such arose from a random chain of development (which I strongly doubt) within a given biological organism, one would still have to explain the pervasiveness of their distribution across unrelated species, and through all the kingdoms of nature -- biological, botanical, mineral -- for that matter.

Consciousness, mind, intelligence, learning can be seen operating throughout nature. Even amoebae have been observed to display a type of intelligent behavior that implies the ability to learn. There is some degree of intelligence in all inanimate life. And in general it expresses as an innate ability of the organism to self-organize functional behaviors that sustain its life.

The other day on "bug watch," I observed the Death Struggle of a moth, which had fallen into the clutches of a spider. My take-away from that experience is: Spiders are a whole lot "smarter" than moths. :^)

110 posted on 11/04/2003 9:36:22 AM PST by betty boop (God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world. -- Paul Dirac)
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