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Ugandan Christians 'Mourn' Over Gay Bishop ("a day of grief, shame and sorrow")
The Monitor (Kampala) ^ | November 3, 2003

Posted on 11/03/2003 11:48:09 AM PST by dead

Kampala

Several Anglicans in Uganda described yesterday as "a day of grief, shame and sorrow" after the consecration of the first openly gay man as a bishop in the United States.

The Rev. Canon V. Gene Robinson was consecrated bishop of the Episcopalian diocese of New Hampshire following months of heated debate over whether the Anglican Church should have gay clergy.

Uganda, which has the second highest concentration of Anglicans in the world after Nigeria, was one of several African countries opposed to Robinson's consecration.

In many Anglican churches yesterday, special prayers were said for the continuity of the church and for the "salvation" of Robinson and his supporters.

Dr Jackson Turyagyenda, the secretary of Namirembe Diocese, the seat of the Church of Uganda, described the day as "lamentable".

A visiting American preacher at St Francis Chapel, Makerere University, Ms Edwina Thomas, said it was "a day of grief and shame" and apologised to Christians for carrying greetings from America.

The Rev. Grace Kaiso of the Uganda Joint Christian Council - an umbrella body for mainstream Christian churches - said it was a "sad and outrageous moment" for the church.

He prayed at Kyambogo Christian Fellowship where he said special prayers were dedicated for the events in New Hampshire.

"We were agonising over it," he said in a telephone interview yesterday.

Dr Rowan Williams, the head of the worldwide Anglican Communion and Archbishop of Canterbury, however, was confident that divisions in the church over Robinson's consecration would eventually heal.

But Turyangyenda said the Church of Uganda would maintain an earlier position not to associate with "those who deviate from the known church norms".

"We disassociate; as simple as that," he said yesterday.

The BBC quoted Archbishop Williams as saying that the church was facing a "risky break" but that eventually there would be reconciliation.

The Archbishop believes that Canon Robinson, who has lived with his male partner for 15 years, should not have been elected bishop.

But Robinson said he believed he was now at peace. He said in interviews before the ceremony that the fact that he was gay made him and his ministries unacceptable to many people and the other bishops around the world.

"The other fact is that I'm not welcome now as an openly gay priest in most of those places," he said.

Robinson said he hoped that "before not too long, other denominations will also follow and welcome openly gay and lesbian people into leadership positions".

At least 50 bishops were expected to attend the consecration ceremony but a large number of Christians who are opposed to the ceremony were also expected to make a formal objection just before he took his vows.

The opponents also staged a service across the road from the stadium where the Robinson was consecrated.

On the New Hampshire diocese Web site the consecration was described as a great moment for the church and invited Christians from all over the world to join them celebrate.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: africanchristians; fallout; homosexualagenda; homosexualbishop; mourners; schism; uganda

1 posted on 11/03/2003 11:48:10 AM PST by dead
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To: dead
God will not be mocked as those gay Episcopalians and supporters of gay rights will find out. But what a stain that this leaves on the Episcopal church!
2 posted on 11/03/2003 11:55:20 AM PST by lizbet
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To: dead
there is a group of nineteenth Ugandan martyrs - young men who refused the king's homosexual advances because of their Christian beliefs - they were burnt alive and chopped to pieces - forced to watch their friends be killed. They refused the king, they said, in order to live in God's kingdom. Their martyrdom was instrumental Christianity taking root in Uganda. They are saints in the Catholic church.

Mrs VS
3 posted on 11/03/2003 11:55:52 AM PST by VeritatisSplendor
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To: dead
Does the bishop in this relegion take a oath of celebacy?

If so he may claim to be Gay but he is not practicing if he takes an oath.

In not this is going to be something else to watch the effect on this church.
4 posted on 11/03/2003 12:07:22 PM PST by oceanperch (Respite care, it is a good thing.)
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To: dead
"a day of grief, shame and sorrow"

The Ugandans have got that one right. A day of supreme hypocrisy.

5 posted on 11/03/2003 12:39:40 PM PST by jimt
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To: oceanperch
Does the bishop in this religion take a oath of celibacy?

Anglican Deacons, Priests and Bishops are supposed to be chaste: celibate outside of marriage, faithful within it.

6 posted on 11/03/2003 12:50:55 PM PST by RonF
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To: oceanperch
Does the bishop in this relegion take a oath of celebacy?

Nope - to the best of my knowledge, the Catholics are the only celibate ones (if you can keep the priests away from the young boys and the nuns away from each other)and that practice does not make sense to me.

7 posted on 11/03/2003 12:51:57 PM PST by trebb
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To: dead
Sad that these pro-homosexual leaders are turning against the word of God. The book of Revelations unfolding slowly but surely.
8 posted on 11/03/2003 12:52:28 PM PST by lilylangtree
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To: oceanperch
He is living with his homosexual lover that he left his family for. He is living in sin and the Anglican Church, at least this portion of it, has not only turned a blind eye towards his sins, but has promoted him to a position of authority with itself.
9 posted on 11/03/2003 12:54:18 PM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: dead
Today over at NRO on their blog The Corner, John Derbyshire posted this little snippet comparing something he had written some time ago, and a bit of a newspaper account from yesterday:

POINTED AFFIRMATIONS [John Derbyshire]
Compare and contrast:
(1) From my column titled "The One and the Many," 6/25/03:

"Homosexuality, open and proud, is a subversive force — subversive, that is, of any institution in which it becomes entrenched. The Roman Catholic church has recently learned this. The Anglican church is about to learn it. The Boy Scouts of America would have learned it, but for a lucky break from the judiciary. ... I do believe, with a high degree of certainty, that after a few more appointments of the Canon John / Rev. Robinson kind, my church will cease to be a vehicle for the teaching of Christ’s gospel, and become instead a dating service for homosexuals. Its ethos will no longer be Christian, it will be 'gay'."

(2) From the AP account of Bishop V. Gene Robinson's consecration, 11/2/03. xml

"In a pointed affirmation of the gay cause, Robinson invited Crew, a second homosexual activist and his own partner - as well as his ex-wife and their two daughters - to join those who will ritually present him today. In the long term, Crew predicts, thousands of homosexuals and open-minded heterosexuals will flow into the denomination, whose membership has declined substantially and now stands at 2.3 million."

10 posted on 11/03/2003 1:03:15 PM PST by LibertarianLiz
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Well I am glad he left his family.
He was living a perverted lie.

Why on Earth do Gay folks want to intregate into a hetro church is beyond me...he left his family to persue his homosexual lifestyle now he wants to be a bishop in a traditionally hetro church...I find it ironic.

And confusing.
11 posted on 11/04/2003 12:50:50 AM PST by oceanperch (Respite care, it is a good thing.)
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To: trebb
Chaste or the oath of Celebacy is like never eating sugar or caffiene.

I did it for many years. It kept life real simple.

I fell down for a summer after 13 yrs.

Talk about a hell. Should I decide to go back to the peace and carefree life of a chaste woman or be bothered with the difficulties of pursueing a mate and all the knocks to the chin in that persuet.

Sexuality is a complex part of our lives when we choose to examine it.
12 posted on 11/04/2003 1:02:10 AM PST by oceanperch (Respite care, it is a good thing.)
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To: RonF
So he is living a chaste life.

Why could he not have guy house friends why did he have to say he is Gay...if you are Homosexual and active ....is that Gay?

I am sooo confused. Seems this takes away of the bottom line of the Church by distracting...should we not just focus on how to be vessels for Jesus Christ? I am just going to stick to what I grew up with and Pray to God with faith, hope and asked to be blessed with good will and love.
Despite what a jerk I am at times.
13 posted on 11/04/2003 1:12:12 AM PST by oceanperch (Respite care, it is a good thing.)
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To: oceanperch
Despite your "if you are Homosexual and active ... is that Gay?" comment, I'm going to take what you've asked seriuously, and suggest that you might want to read up on what's going on here. Bp. Robinson was married and had children by his wife, despite having desires for a same-sex relationship which he even confided to his then-fiance before they were married. While his children were small, around the age of 40, he decided that his life wasn't properly fulfilled in this fashion. He arranged a ceremony wherein he and his wife mutually disavowed their marriage vows and abandoned their marriage. Some time afterwards, apparently about two years, he started up a monogamous same-sex sexual relationship, which has now lasted 13 years. He has been quite public about all of this.
14 posted on 11/04/2003 9:51:04 AM PST by RonF
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To: RonF
Your right I did need a narative.
Thanks. Unfortunetly I am not up to date on everything that is going on but I do my best to read through threads before I chime in.

Good to have someone bring others up to date.

Wether he is Gay or straight he dumped his family for another relationship.

I still don't get the idea behind the Gay lifestyle. Does sex play a big part of it or is it companionship. I don't know that it matters.

We know a gal who is going through court right now in Cali. to win the right to be a female Gay Bishop. I have no problem understanding women or men having same sex buddies it gets confusing when sex with the buddies are included.

Kinda like having sex with someone in the office it just seems to complicate things.

Personal relationships and proffesion seems that a line drawn keeps things uncomplicated.

We have a rule no affairs with staff and it has been broken a couple of times over the years and it was not pretty. Someone gets hurt and the lines blur. But hey that's just my opinion.
15 posted on 11/04/2003 10:14:01 AM PST by oceanperch (Respite care, it is a good thing.)
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To: oceanperch
So he is living a chaste life.

Not according to my understanding of what "chaste" means, which is "celibate while single, faithful while married." V. Gene Robinson was married, but is not now married. A chaste monogamous relationship does not equal marriage. There are additional aspects that are required.

First, if you look at Scripture, it would appear that Jesus defined marriage as being solely between a man and a woman, so that would eliminate ever considering a monogamous same-sex relationship as a marriage.

But let's say you don't accept that. Hey, let's say you're not Christian. It seems to me that marriage is not, never has been, and cannot be considered an agreement or compact between the two people involved (I don't even want to get into polygamous marriage). It's also a compact between the couple and society at large. The two people involved pledge to support each other financially, emotionally, spiritually, and physically until death. They also agree to do the same for their children (should there be any) until those children reach their majority and are able to fend for themselves.

This has value for society, as it relieves the load that single people might otherwise place on society at large if they were single and found themselves in a situation that an individual cannot handle. An easy example would be the costs of child care for children whose parents cannot or will not care for them that your tax money currently pays for. But the spiritual and emotional support has value to society at large as well. In return for this value, society grants certain privileges to the married couple, and this is symbolized in the requirement, even in civil marriage, of a public record of the marriage and the need for public witnesses who are not part of the authority sanctioning the marriage.

In the absence of such public committment, in the absence of any societial recognition of a same-sex relationship, such a relationship cannot be considered marriage. That may well change in the future, but right now the case is as I state it.

And I'd wager that if you asked V. Gene Robinson if he was married, he'd say "No." If he says "Yes," I'd ask him what church this marriage took place in. But in the interviews he's given that I've seen, he's never described his relationship with his partner as a marriage. And thus, his relationship by my definition cannot be considered "chaste".

16 posted on 11/04/2003 10:43:44 AM PST by RonF
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To: RonF
Oops. Please edit the above:

It seems to me that marriage is not, never has been, and cannot be considered solely an agreement or compact between the two people involved ....

17 posted on 11/04/2003 10:45:57 AM PST by RonF
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