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Unless you're a hunter, lose your handgun
The Keystone ^ | 10/31/2003 | Dan Sanders

Posted on 10/31/2003 6:44:18 AM PST by jdege

Unless you're a hunter, lose your handgun

Recently, Shorty's began frisking individuals and using metal detectors to ensure safety. Will this cause students to stop going out?

By Dan Sanders, Opinions Writer, The Keystone

This weekend, I discovered a new special at Shorty's. it's called the "Oh my god, I'm going to get shot!" And it's absolutely free.

On a routine, ordinary drinking binge this weekend, I stumbled on over to Shorty's. Upon entering the local hangout, I was asked for my ID, even though my hairline clearly broadcasts my legality.

Then, suddenly, another bouncer grabs me and frisks me with a metal detector. "Oh, no," I thought. "I hope I didn't bring my bomb." No, I don't own a bomb. How about my knives, guns or infamous Sword of Doom? No, no, no. Do I even want to drink there any longer? No, no, no.

Here's the problem. I'm all behind the idea of frisking everyone that walks through the door. The frightening thing isn't the precaution; it's the apparent need for that precaution. Does that mean that The Pub is now a runoff spot for Kutztown gun nuts?

It's terrifying to think this is a real problem. There are actually people out there who feel they should carry a gun to a place where they plan to drink alcohol in large quantities. I used to worry about getting clipped by drunk drivers on the weekends. Now, I have to worry about drinking and drive bys.

The craziest part is that if someone is stupid enough to take a gun to a bar, they should be allowed to ever carry a gun. There should be a rule where you can't have a gun and drink ever, ever again. If you want to kill stuff with a tiny cannon, you should have all of your faculties available to you at all times.

Besides, if you're so concerned about your health that you need to defend it with a gun, what the hell are you doing in a bar?

While there's no reason to carry a gun in the first place, there's even less of a reason to take one with you when you're drinking. There's no other purpose in carrying a gun to a bar than killing a stranger who stepped on your shoe, or caused you some other small inconvenience ("I SAID NO ICE!"). That is not a good reason. There are a hundred reasons not to carry a gun into a bar, most of which deal with the lack of logic behind it.

First of all, there isn't any game in a bar. You'll never be out drinking and decide to do some random hunting. At no point will there ever be a deer hitting on your girlfriend, or a bear menacing the dance floor.

Also, we don't need to defend anything. There are no evildoers to ward off, wrongs to right or justice to uphold. Nobody is tied to train tracks, and the owner of Shorty's isn't a laser-wielding evil scientist.

England isn't going to invade Kutztown and claim it for the Queen. Even if they were, the government has all the army it needs. America has never lost a war because were short one man, six bullets and 62 IQ points from central Pennsylvania.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this situation, and it turns out that one of our friends is looking to get his carrier's permit. This is the permit that allows one and all to walk around with a handgun for no good reason. His angle was protection. The fear angle. The what-if-I'm-attacked-by-strangers-for-my-Velcro-wallet-that-contains-more-business-cards-than-dollars-I-have-a-free-bagel-coupon-in-there angle.

Based on the logic of protecting yourself from the imaginary demons that are going to beat you up at the bar, maybe you shouldn't leave the house. You should just stay at home, wrapped in blankets, and take vitamins until you're 90 years old.

There's no need to be this afraid for your wellbeing. By the same logic, I should start wearing a cup to the bar. I've never caught a swift one to the testicles at the bar before, but who knows what tomorrow holds. It could hold my testicles in my stomach. I'd better be safe and wear that cup, and a helmet, and I'd better start carrying that sword of Doom.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; rkba
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To: Joe Brower
Check out this rainbow hued bilge water!
61 posted on 10/31/2003 11:13:22 AM PST by philman_36
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To: jdege
I had to look twice to be sure this article wasn't written by Ms. Mark Morford. To my surprise, it wasn't!

If there is no need for handguns in bars, why do all the off-duty cops carry them in there?

62 posted on 10/31/2003 11:21:10 AM PST by Gritty
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To: mylife
"I wonder if the author was drinking while he wrote this article? "

I was thinking he didn't have a problem finding another watering hole.

63 posted on 10/31/2003 11:22:46 AM PST by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: jdege
It's illegal for a CCW-holder to drink and carry a gun in every single state with a CCW law.

Everyon who keeps saying this needs to look at post #31

ITS LEGAL IN MINNESOTA!!!!!

As a matter of fact I had a couple beers while I was carrying last Friday.

Being uninformed makes us all look bad.
64 posted on 10/31/2003 11:26:29 AM PST by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, Im SabREtooth.)
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To: Billthedrill; E. Pluribus Unum
See post 64.

Good day sir.
65 posted on 10/31/2003 11:31:30 AM PST by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, Im SabREtooth.)
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To: N3WBI3
""There are no evildoers to ward off, wrongs to right or justice to uphold. Nobody is tied to train tracks, and the owner of Shorty's isn't a laser-wielding evil scientist.""

"Oh yea nobody is ever attacked at or near a bar..."

This asswipe should ask Hal9000 about not needing protection in a bar.

BTW, I carry whenever I go out, where ever that takes me, even if I'm going to imbibe. I've never shot anyone for any reason. Never even had to brandish it. But that doesn't mean that I will never need it.

66 posted on 10/31/2003 11:42:54 AM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: mylife
"For the most part I believe we already have laws that address bringing firearms into drinking establishments."

No such restrictions here in PA unless the owner of the bar posts it as such. I have only seen one bar with a sign and his reasoning was "9/11". I didn't see the sign when I entered, but someone else told me about it. What was funny was that at least 10 people that I knew in there were carrying and one guy was carrying open.

67 posted on 10/31/2003 11:47:18 AM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: mountaineer
Excellent point. Most of the time when I do go to the bar now, it is for dinner and to meet friends. I may be there for 4 or 5 hours and never have any alcohol. I'm waiting to get pulled over when I leave based on the amount of time that my car has been parked in the lot.
68 posted on 10/31/2003 11:49:11 AM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: jdege
Is there anything more pathetic than a journalist writing for a podunk newsrag in the sticks who desperately is assembling a left-wing commentary portfolio so that one day they may finally be 'discovered' by a big metro paper so that they can move to the big city lights and away from all the people they consider to be 'hayseeds'?
69 posted on 10/31/2003 11:55:50 AM PST by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
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To: Badray
Mr. M and I went out to dinner last night, and each of us had one adult beverage. (As you note, it is possible to patronize an establishment serving intoxicating beverages, and still leave cold sober - unless you're the simple-minded college kid who wrote the article, apparently). Should I have left my little pistol at home, I wonder? But what if we had been accosted in the parking lot?

Whew, so glad it was an uneventful evening!

70 posted on 10/31/2003 12:03:07 PM PST by mountaineer
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To: mylife
For the most part I believe we already have laws that address bringing firearms into drinking establishments.

It depends on the State. Some states have almost no restrictions and leave this at the discretion of the management. I used to live in one such state; you were allowed to bring firearms into any private establishment unless one was specifically notified to the contrary (i.e. via a prominent sign or the management telling you). In practice, few bars and such actually had such a sign posted. It was never a problem much that I could tell.

71 posted on 10/31/2003 12:06:48 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"It's illegal for a CCW-holder to drink and carry a gun in every single state with a CCW law."

Source, please. I can find no such law in PA.

72 posted on 10/31/2003 12:08:42 PM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: jdege
While there's no reason to carry a gun in the first place, there's even less of a reason to take one with you when you're drinking.

The first part of the statement is pure BS, although I generally agree with the second part.

In North Dakota, Concealed Weapon Permit holders are neither to carry in any establishment with an alcohol license nor in a place with a gaming license, unless they are an employee.

Carrying your weapon under the influence is a definite no-no.

Either infraction will cost you your license and may end up in criminal charges.

Only firearms (unloaded) offered as raffle prizes are allowed otherwise.

73 posted on 10/31/2003 12:10:28 PM PST by Smokin' Joe
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To: mylife
My thoughts exactly. Alcohol and word processors don't mix.

Friends don't let friends write drunk...

74 posted on 10/31/2003 12:12:59 PM PST by Smokin' Joe
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To: Archangelsk
He does have a point though: alcohol + firearms = high likelihood of an errant round being loosed.

I have no problem with a policy that you either check your gun (and your car keys) or you get cut off while you're still sober.

I don't think that's what this author (if I may dignify the generator of this near-gibberish with that term) has in mind, however.

75 posted on 10/31/2003 12:17:32 PM PST by steve-b
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To: Delmarksman
Oddly enough, in some jurisdictions, being drunk doesn't mean you get the full force of the blame, but is seen as one of those mitigating/extenuating circumstances which lets you partly off the hook because you weren't in your right mind. Go Figure. If you are sober and thump some jerk for messing with your wife, you catch more hell than if you had a snootfull.
76 posted on 10/31/2003 12:17:39 PM PST by Smokin' Joe
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To: Beelzebubba
If you are controversial, then so am I. Even if a person is 'buzzed', (but not falling down, stupid drunk) they would still be able to operate a vehicle safely in an emergency or use their firearm appropriately. You might not get a 1 inch group at 50 feet, but that doesn't mean that you'll shoot up the neighborhood either.
77 posted on 10/31/2003 12:17:44 PM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
It's illegal for a CCW-holder to drink and carry a gun in every single state with a CCW law.

False. In Nevada, you can go into a bar with a gun and put down a couple beers. Legally. The BAC where it becomes a misdemeanor crime ("loaded while loaded") is higher than the BAC for drunk driving.

It would be more correct to say that it is a crime to carry guns in public after getting well-lubed. It is enforced as a secondary charge if you get tagged for some other "drinking in public" type crime.

78 posted on 10/31/2003 12:21:46 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Sabretooth
ITS LEGAL IN MINNESOTA!!!!!

It is legal in Nevada too.

79 posted on 10/31/2003 12:24:26 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Beelzebubba
If a mugger pulls a knife on Mrs. Beelzebubba and me when we are strolling tipsily back from the nightclub to the hotel after a few too many champagne cocktails, I just might use my gun to stop the attack.

For starters, the adrenalin rush is really going to wreak havoc with any buzz you were feeling. I don't know how that affects you, but everything starts moving in slow-motion for me. Crystal clear, but it is as if I am thinking in normal time. Sober, no problem, when I drank, I thought fast, but my body did not respond as quickly as when sober.

There are more contentious jerks around water holes, especially ones where people drink hard. The no firearms rule just takes things down a notch for the hardcore drunks. They can still beat each other up out back and suffer in the morning without the likelihood of collateral damage.

80 posted on 10/31/2003 12:26:38 PM PST by Smokin' Joe
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