Unless you're a hunter, lose your handgun

The Keystone ^ | 10/31/2003 | Dan Sanders

[jdege]

Unless you're a hunter, lose your handgun

Recently, Shorty's began frisking individuals and using metal detectors to ensure safety. Will this cause students to stop going out?

By Dan Sanders, Opinions Writer, The Keystone

This weekend, I discovered a new special at Shorty's. it's called the "Oh my god, I'm going to get shot!" And it's absolutely free.

On a routine, ordinary drinking binge this weekend, I stumbled on over to Shorty's. Upon entering the local hangout, I was asked for my ID, even though my hairline clearly broadcasts my legality.

Then, suddenly, another bouncer grabs me and frisks me with a metal detector. "Oh, no," I thought. "I hope I didn't bring my bomb." No, I don't own a bomb. How about my knives, guns or infamous Sword of Doom? No, no, no. Do I even want to drink there any longer? No, no, no.

Here's the problem. I'm all behind the idea of frisking everyone that walks through the door. The frightening thing isn't the precaution; it's the apparent need for that precaution. Does that mean that The Pub is now a runoff spot for Kutztown gun nuts?

It's terrifying to think this is a real problem. There are actually people out there who feel they should carry a gun to a place where they plan to drink alcohol in large quantities. I used to worry about getting clipped by drunk drivers on the weekends. Now, I have to worry about drinking and drive bys.

The craziest part is that if someone is stupid enough to take a gun to a bar, they should be allowed to ever carry a gun. There should be a rule where you can't have a gun and drink ever, ever again. If you want to kill stuff with a tiny cannon, you should have all of your faculties available to you at all times.

Besides, if you're so concerned about your health that you need to defend it with a gun, what the hell are you doing in a bar?

While there's no reason to carry a gun in the first place, there's even less of a reason to take one with you when you're drinking. There's no other purpose in carrying a gun to a bar than killing a stranger who stepped on your shoe, or caused you some other small inconvenience ("I SAID NO ICE!"). That is not a good reason. There are a hundred reasons not to carry a gun into a bar, most of which deal with the lack of logic behind it.

First of all, there isn't any game in a bar. You'll never be out drinking and decide to do some random hunting. At no point will there ever be a deer hitting on your girlfriend, or a bear menacing the dance floor.

Also, we don't need to defend anything. There are no evildoers to ward off, wrongs to right or justice to uphold. Nobody is tied to train tracks, and the owner of Shorty's isn't a laser-wielding evil scientist.

England isn't going to invade Kutztown and claim it for the Queen. Even if they were, the government has all the army it needs. America has never lost a war because were short one man, six bullets and 62 IQ points from central Pennsylvania.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this situation, and it turns out that one of our friends is looking to get his carrier's permit. This is the permit that allows one and all to walk around with a handgun for no good reason. His angle was protection. The fear angle. The what-if-I'm-attacked-by-strangers-for-my-Velcro-wallet-that-contains-more-business-cards-than-dollars-I-have-a-free-bagel-coupon-in-there angle.

Based on the logic of protecting yourself from the imaginary demons that are going to beat you up at the bar, maybe you shouldn't leave the house. You should just stay at home, wrapped in blankets, and take vitamins until you're 90 years old.

There's no need to be this afraid for your wellbeing. By the same logic, I should start wearing a cup to the bar. I've never caught a swift one to the testicles at the bar before, but who knows what tomorrow holds. It could hold my testicles in my stomach. I'd better be safe and wear that cup, and a helmet, and I'd better start carrying that sword of Doom.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Call me controversial, I believe that even drunk people have a right to self-defense.

If a mugger pulls a knife on Mrs. Beelzebubba and me when we are strolling tipsily back from the nightclub to the hotel after a few too many champagne cocktails, I just might use my gun to stop the attack.

I suspect that a sober person who is charged with panic and adrenaline in such a circumstance has his accuracy impaired from his normal range-day accuracy about as much as a moderately intoxicated person (who is capable of walking.) And as far as having the judgement of whether to draw, or shoot, even even when tipsy, my judgement falls within the range of normal adults who are licensed for CCW.

You don't confiscate the car of someone who might not be able to drive it safely. Why essentially confiscate the gun of one who might not be able to shoot it accurately? Furthermore, drunk driving is morally wrong because it endangers others while providing only a minimal benefit to the perpetrator (getting home more cheaply than a taxi). In contrast, it is perfectly legitimate to endanger others when it is necessary, such as to protect the life of an innocent. A walking-capable drunk (BAC ~0.12?) SHOULD drive if is necessary get a loved one to the hospital after a life-threatening injury.

I don't care if it is a crime. I carry everywhere there is not a metal detector. If there is a metal detector, then I am being provided with real (if imperfect) security by the proprietor, keeping the thugs from being armed.

When cops go out for a drink after work, or go out for dinner with the wife, do they disarm before entering the bar or restaraunt?

[boris]

Evidently bringing a knife into a bar is much more acceptable.

[boris]

"The craziest part is that if someone is stupid enough to take a gun to a bar, they should be allowed to ever carry a gun."

English is not his native language, I take it.

[Yo-Yo]

It's illegal for a CCW-holder to drink and carry a gun in every single state with a CCW law.

Michigan's CCW law:

Pistol Free Areas
------------------

Beginning July 1, 2001, individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state will be prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in the following areas:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

Sports arena or stadium

A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

A hospital

A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

A Casino

Premises does not include parking areas of the above places

A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed

First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months
Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked
Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked

Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:
"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court’s written policy."

[boris]

"The craziest part is that if someone is stupid enough to take a gun to a bar, they should be allowed to ever carry a gun."

English is not his native language, I take it.

[Ches]

"But carrying while walking through a door is perfectly benign behavior. Even if it's the door to a bar."

True, but according to WI laws: "It is unlawful to operate or go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant.1 It is unlawful to go armed with a handgun on any premises for which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed."
WI Gun Laws

That being said, I'm sure this anti-gun swill by Dan Sanders will assuredly raise my hubby's blood pressure when he gets home.

[Puppage]

but going into a bar while carrying

What's the problem with that? It's perfectly legal in CT.

[unixfox]

For the most part I believe we already have laws that address bringing firearms into drinking______________(insert here) establishments.

[Redcloak]

File this one under "Kiss my ass."

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Also, we don't need to defend anything. There are no evildoers to ward off...

Is this moron serious? Oops. I mean 'series'.

Ahhh...to behold the world through the eyes of a 14 year old again.
"The world is new, people are good and adults are stupid."

[Hat-Trick]

No doubt. I was wondering what college he attends or teaches. Just another "can't we all just get along" utopian.

Hat-Trick

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Yer right, it's illegal, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

It will stop the people who bothered to get the license to carry LEGALLY. The reason they bothered to get the license was because they wanted to obey the law.

Laws only affect the law-abiding.

You never had any control over the others to begin with.

Lazy morons like you punish the innocent and excuse the guilty because it's easier that way.

[ibheath]

Only a bozo would think guns and booze are a combination that should be protected.

I think that both are legal products, and If I have a CCW permit, I am going to carry.

Also, not everyone who enters a bar drinks themselves into oblivion. Some of us go for music or to socialize. (although I usually can't stand the smoke very long)

Don't worry, I will continue to exercise my rights to preserve even your freedom of speech.

[antiliberal]

the permit that allows one and all to walk around with a handgun for no good reason

The second ammendment of the Constitution makes it a good reason. End of story.

[archy]

Hatred and bigotry

He has a point, though:

England isn't going to invade Kutztown and claim it for the Queen. Even if they were, the government has all the army it needs. America has never lost a war because were short one man, six bullets and 62 IQ points from central Pennsylvania.

It'll more likely be Mexico, of course. And since the government has been negligent in its responsibility to the citizenry in defending them from the invasion from the south, so it falls upon the citizenry to do that which the government has failed to accomplish.

But rather than depend on *just* a handgun, I think I'll get something a bit more effective.

And six is quite enough, so long as you hit with each one. As long as you're not fighting seven, of course.

-archy-/-

[Billthedrill]

Well, as others have pointed out, it's already illegal in every state to carry concealed in an establishment that is dedicated to the selling of alcohol, so the only persons to do so would be...wait for it, folks...the only ones carrying in such a place would be...uh...criminals, right?

I do have a problem with the fellow moving from not carrying in a criminal manner to not allowing anyone to carry a handgun, period. "No good reason?" That's simply silly, and ridiculing his friend's velcro wallet doesn't hide it. Is he suggesting that poor people are never assaulted or robbed? What world does he live in?

[Archangelsk]

Lazy morons like you punish the innocent and excuse the guilty because it's easier that way.

Gee, a little sensitive are we? A little hot under the collar? A little rage building up, huh? Oh, it's OK, everyone needs an anonymous outlet to shake one's fist at, so no problem, big guy. Yep, you're the responsible kind I want carrying.

Oh, by the way: AR-15, Glock 9mm, AK-47, and Springfield M1 .308 owner here, so take your anger elsewhere, sonny.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Oh, by the way: AR-15, Glock 9mm, AK-47, and Springfield M1 .308 owner here, so take your anger elsewhere, sonny

I notice you didn't answer my question, gun-nut.

What can you do with the guns you prefer to keep away from everyone else, and the ones you own?

[RightWhale]

They used to check firearms at the door. Too many bozos think firearms is the best answer to a drunken insult.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Yeah, right, it's illegal, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

You have the psychological profile of a born criminal: laws are meant to be ignored.