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To: kattracks
Disposable personal income is up 5.8 percent at an annual rate in 2003.

How many of us here can claim this? I can't.

Will 'trickle down' work this time?

3 posted on 10/31/2003 3:37:57 AM PST by raybbr
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To: raybbr
How many of us here can claim this? I can't.

I don't like the term disposable, but I have had two promotions this year, and I expect one more slight raise and a bonus early next year. My salary has gone up 15% this year, not counting Bush tax cuts. My industry is very much tied to the overall business climate. My company's stock is up, we are offering a dividend next year as a result of the new tax laws, and that is making our stock more attractive still. Opportunity abounds! But then, I have made it through the last few years very well. In fact, since 1999, when the economy started to slow, my income has increased something like 30%, and my wife has done well also. We've started a home based business, invested in another long term business project. My cup runneth over.

6 posted on 10/31/2003 3:58:13 AM PST by Huck
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To: raybbr
How many of us here can claim this? I can't.

Will 'trickle down' work this time?

It only works for people with brains and ambition. Neither trickle up nor trickle down work for the stupid and lazy. In fact trickle up never works.

The Democrats want to take money from those that employ Americans, and give it to the "poor." The poor would promptly take that dough to WalMart and spend it on stuff made in China. The trickle up plan would put people to work.. What the Democrats don't tell you is the people that would get the new jobs just happen to live in China... not the USA.

Trickle up failed for 8 straight years in the 1930's. Even when all goods were made in the USA it did not help. The people who are taxes would have spent or saved the money that was taxed. If they saved it the banks whould have loaned it and the borrower would have spent the money. If they person taxed spent his money it put people to work just like his saved money did.

The government just takes the money and it gets, then spends it putting people to work. The people who would have stayed employed if the money were not taxed just get laid off.

In the 1930's the government put 8 million people to work as government employes in the WPA. It did not change the unemployment rate by even a single percent. When FDR took money from the "rich" the rich just fired people to pay the tax. Then FDR put other unemployed people to work with the money. It is a zero sum game. The people fired never figured out they lost their job so others could work. Those hired by FDR were sure to vote for him. It is great politics but it hurts as many as it helps. In the long run it hurts becuase the "Rich" see nothing to be gained by making money if the governemnt is just going to take it. So they tend to trade leasure for money and more people get laid off.

Real income did not rise in the 30's for anyone, and unemployment remained at 25 percent for 8 years despite the government hiring 8 million people.

Trickle down was tried in the 1960's by the Democrats under JFK and it worked. Unemployment went from high single digits to low single digits. Reagan noted that JFK's plan worked and tried it for the Republicans in the early 1980's and it worked again. Unemployment went from double digit to low single digit. Dubya is trying it now an it appears to be working exactly like it did in 1963 and 1983. It is doing the same thing in 2003 that it always does.

When the economy turns back up, companies always work existing workers overtime rather than hire new. With the tax and benefit situation the way it is, it is cheaper to pay time and a half and double time to an existing worker than it is to hire a new worker.

At many firms the cost of taxes and benefits exceeds the wage rate paid. The cheapest labor hour for many companies are double time Sunday hours.

Trickle down has always worked. Trickle up has never worked.

Free markets reward entrepreneurs. Free markets distribute wealth to those that earn it first. Those satisfied to be not so valuable hired help, always get the benefits last and lose them first.

The only alternative is socialism where there are no benefits .... only mutually shared poverty... except for the ruling class.... they always enjoy the trappings of wealth.

The funny thing is the ruling class turns out to be the same people under either system. The rule is, smart ambitious people will always rise to the top. Dumb lazy people are always crying "When will I get mine... I don't get anything... sob sob"

9 posted on 10/31/2003 4:44:06 AM PST by Common Tator (I support Billybob. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: raybbr
The gross increase in my business so far this year is 11%, which translates well to a increased disposable income of 5.% or so. My husband's business is doing so well that he can make as much in 4 days as he did in 5 and so he has an extra day to do some building projects on our house. This translates into the same amount of money for less hours and a savings on hiring a contractor while allowing us to afford the building materials.

Both our businesses depend on other people's disposable income, so that tracks w/this as well.
10 posted on 10/31/2003 5:31:54 AM PST by reformedliberal
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To: raybbr
How many of us here can claim this? I can't. Will 'trickle down' work this time?

It's working for me.

Plus, the re-fi of my mortgages earlier this year freed up about $900/month in savings.
11 posted on 10/31/2003 5:39:43 AM PST by G L Tirebiter
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To: raybbr
How many of us here can claim this? I can't.

I certainly can claim this fact. This is the first time in my life that I am credit card debt free, full funding my 401K and have liquid assets.

I say this not to impress anyone because I know it is not easy, but to demonstrate that most of these circumstances came as a result of extra savings from the Bush tax cuts. Those refund checks were a great way to make a dent on my debt and the little extra in my check from reduced tax witholding helps me put aside something every month.

12 posted on 10/31/2003 5:48:09 AM PST by GWB00
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To: raybbr
Disposable personal income is up 5.8 percent at an annual rate in 2003. How many of us here can claim this? I can't.

So if a statistic doesn't fit your personal situation it must not be true?

15 posted on 10/31/2003 6:29:54 AM PST by steelwheels
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