.45-70 Big Power At Close Range

Shooting Times ^ | May 1997 | Rcik Jamison

[Lando Lincoln]

I've never fired a 45-70 in a lightweight lever action before

Itouched only off only one.......had to get a new pair of glasses and my shoulder hurt for a week!

[Swordmaker]

I also have a Winchester '94 in 45 colt that is fun to shoot, but I doubt that it would bring down an Elk, a whitetail maybe.

Are you sure it is a Winchester '94?

The engineering of that rifle was not designed to handle a .45 Colt... the carriage and lifter would have to be designed and the lever throw modified. I know of the Turnbull Restoration sets in .45 Colt (very rare, 5 I think, and exceedingly expensive) and the .45 Colt Legacy Winchester '94s. Is your's one of those??

A Winchester '92 (basically a miniaturized 1886 Browning design) possibly could be rechambered for the .45 Colt from the .44-40 Winchester it was designed to handle. The '92 was made in .44-40, .38-40, .32-20, .25-20 and some very rare .218 Bees.< In the '40's and '50'2 some were converted (unsafely) to .357 Magnum.

There are some REPLICA 1892s that were manufactured in .45 Colt in Japan in a limited run of 500 in 2002.

[CFC__VRWC]

I also knew a doctor who touched off a .458, scoped, without a good firm grip. He stitched up his hanging eye brow in the rear view mirror of his car.

Ouch - nothing like a case of "scope eye" to ruin a day at the range. My old Horanady reloading manual has data for the .460 Weatherby cartridge. They mentioned that the only way they could shoot the test rifle enough to develop the load data was to drape a bag full of lead shot over the shooter's shoulder to absorb the worst of the impact. Even then, they said the recoil was tremendous.

I did a pretty good number on my wrist with a Winchester 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip I had a few years ago. I was hip shooting it, using 3-inch 00 buckshot shells. The pistol grip was hard plastic, and it was a typical Florida afternoon in late July, so my hands were very sweaty. That damned gun just about jumped out of my hands, and it took a decent-sized hunk of skin out of the base of my thumb, as well as really popping my wrist backward. I had to wear an ace bandage on it for a couple of days

[Centurion2000]

A Winchester '92 (basically a miniaturized 1886 Browning design) possibly could be rechambered for the .45 Colt from the .44-40 Winchester it was designed to handle.

Rossi makes and EXCELLENT Winchester 92 copy in 45 Colt that you can load for all get out. They also chamber it in 454 casull .... and mine runs like a champ.

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I bullseyed the first shot, but by the tenth shot I couldn't even hit paper anymore, I was whimpering and flinching so badly.

This is the main reason I prefer a nice semi-automatic rifle over a bolt action about any day. I have a .308 semi-auto and it is fun to shoot (though I know a .416 magnum round is no comparison to a 7.62 N.A.T.O. round).

[FlyVet]

Yeah, those pistol grips are for the birds, unless you really need something that compact. You can shoot a stocked 12 guage from the hip all day and it won't hurt you. When I was turkey hunting, I sighted in some 2-ounce turkey loads. My Mossberg has the rubber recoil pad, but about 4 shots was all I could stand before the tears started flowing. :(

Even the 2 3/4" slug loads are too much for me off the bench. I had to use a sand bag between my shoulder and the butt when sighting in off the bench. Made me happy though, that my cheap smooth bore with Remington rifled slugs, was out-shooting my brother and his friend with their fancy rifled bores and sabot slugs. Out to about 65 yards, anyways, trusty old Mossberg can keep it in the black.

[Swordmaker]

I once had a double barrelled .577 Snyder Elephant gun... it was only about 24" long... but the cartridge was almost as long (I'm only slightly exagerating). It had no sights at all. The story went that pygmy hunters used them for elephant hunting by running UNDER the elephant, sticking the gun up into the elephant's gut, pulling the trigger and running out before the elephant fell down!

Now, if you think that is funny how about the .577 Snyder PISTOL???

According to Fr. Frog:

The British "Howdah" pistols were basically a .577 Snyder double rifle with the barrel cut off to seven inches(!) and a pistolgrip stock. They were designed to shoot a attacking tiger off the back of the elephant you were riding through the jungle. Legend has it that the way you employed it was to hand it to the tiger and let him fire it! (Consider that the .577 launches a 480gr bullet on top of 70+ gr of black powder--in a three pound pistol, and with its tendency to "double" it was truly a pistol for the "manly man.")

[AgentEcho]

What is it about girls with guns? I love it. I can't even get my wife to fire my Browning .22 much less my S&W CS40.

[FlyVet]

They mentioned that the only way they could shoot the test rifle enough to develop the load data was to drape a bag full of lead shot over the shooter's shoulder to absorb the worst of the impact. Even then, they said the recoil was tremendous.

I think the most I could handle, if I ever went on an Alaskan dream hunt for Grizzly, would be the BAR in .338. I'd get it Mag-na-Ported, then it would be sweet. Of course, I'd want an experienced guide backing me up with something nasty and reliable, like the .458 or .416 in a Mauser-style bolt rifle, in case the semi-auto decided to malfunction. I guess a lot of us must fantasize about a hunt like that, or going to Africa for the Big 5. Oh well.......maybe some day, before the old bones get too old...

[Swordmaker]

I know what .458 Win Mag and .416 Rigby feel like. In each case, I took one shot, handed the rifle back to the owner, and wiped the tears from my eyes.

When I was working in a gun shop in Sacramento, a gunsmith that worked there built a .458 WinMag rifle that weighed only 4.5 pounds! He had a standing offer that if you paid him $50 and could shoot the gun three times in an hour, you could have it. Last I heard he still had it.

He let me fire it once for free... and I put a heck of a lot of padding on my shoulder before the attempt... and I was sore for over a month and had a bruise you would not believe.

HE could fire it that many times... but then he thought nothing of taking an unstocked 10 Ga. Magnum and test firing it holding on to the tang...

[FlyVet]

What is it about girls with guns? I love it. I can't even get my wife to fire my Browning .22 much less my S&W CS40.

Tell her that women are better natural shooters than men. It's true.

I took my mom and dad out to the gravel pit one day. My little, 5-foot, 100-lb., 60 year old mom. She had never fired a handgun in her life. We set up a Coke can about 25 feet away. I gave her a short course in semi-auto handgun safety, then handed her my Ruger Mk II stainless bull .22. She fired a 10-shot clip at the can. The can didn't move a fraction, all the dirt kicking up behind it. We all thought, "Nice try Mom, you're a good sport." Walked up to the can, the damn thing had about 8 holes in it, right in the middle. Jaws dropped to the ground. On top of that, she says, "I could shoot somebody with this, if they came in my house." I was so proud of my little mommy that day. :)

[FlyVet]

He let me fire it once for free... and I put a heck of a lot of padding on my shoulder before the attempt... and I was sore for over a month and had a bruise you would not believe.

There's a technique to it. I know you have to grip the forearm very tightly, keep the butt very firmly into your shoulder, but at the same time keep your arms very stiff to absorb the recoil. I just have zero meat on my shoulder, there's nothing separating the gun butt from my shoulder joint but skin. Bad genetics.

My all-time favorite gun writer, Finn Aagaard, God rest his soul, used to say his petite wife could handle the .375 H&H with ease...grrrr.

[exnavy]

Yes I am sure, it is a 'chester 94AE, manufactured in the early 1990's to fill the needs of the cowboy action shooters, not a pre '64 winchester.

[MarkL]

When I was younger (and wilder), I had "a hankerin" for a handgun that was BIG! Sure, I had my Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum, and I handloaded some really hot loads, with either 180gr SJHP or the big 300gr Sierras... But for some reason, I just didn't feel that they were enough...

So, I series-ly thought about getting myself a Thompson Center Contender... Either in .45/70, or possibly even in .375 JDJ (I had previously spoken to J.D. Jones about getting a "big" bullet for my .41 Mag S&W Model 57... When I asked about the powder charge, his response was, "fill the case with 296, and put the bullet on!"). At the time, I figured that having an "elephant gun" for a handgun at home would ensure that there would never be any rogue elephants storming about my neighborhood... Eventually, I did come to my senses, and never did buy either one... But it was fun to dream!

Mark

[M.K. Borders]

There were several model years for the 45-70 "Trapdoor", the first of course being 1873.

Trapdoors were being produced from surplus musket stock as early as 1865 and chambered with much larger loads.
Though there were several 45-70 models fielded, they all tended to look like the the 1873. The differences in these models were things like barrel bands, sights, bayonets etc.

I would have to look it up, but I believe the last 45-70 goverment model to be fielded by the Army was 1885. These weapons were in use to well past 1900.

[Shooter 2.5]

My experience with trapdoors started when I went to a gunshop and they had a nice looking one for a ridiculous price. I bought it and some ammo and started to check it out. The cartridges were too small for the chamber. I took it back to see what was going on and the gunshop owner told me they made a mistake. It was a 50-70. He then went into the back of the shop and gave me a trapdoor 45-70 without the lock mechanism.

He told me to go home and just switch out the parts. I now had two for the price of one. I just had to find a lock for the one I wanted to shoot.I went to Dixie Gun Works and Turner Kirkland fixed me up with a new lock. Everything was working just great. The only problem was the 45-70 was in so bad of shape that I sold it for about 200. I kept the 50-70 but I never put the cartridges together in order to shoot it.

[Shooter 2.5]

A real gentleman. Jeff Cooper Class. 1999 Whittington Center.

[harpseal]

I have two big/dangerous game rifles. A bolt action .416 Rigby and a lever action Marlin guide gun in .45-70 cal. The .45-70 with its compenstated barrel is not much different on the shoulder than a .30-30 cal.

[45Auto]

The worst recoil in a handcannon that I ever experienced was with a friend's T/C Contender. He thought along the same lines as you, that he just had to have a pistol capable of stopping an elephant, should one ever bother to go on a rampage in northern Califonia. He contracted with J.D. Jones to have one built - a 14 inch stainless bull barrel model with a Jones muzzle brake. A really nice looking unit. That thing was O.K. to shoot if one kept the handloads down to the lower levels of the trapdoor range; but when it was loaded up to the levels of the Ruger No. 1 with 400 grain bullets, it became very, very unpleasent. After shooting that gun, I decided that I would ONLY shoot .45-70 in a rifle.

One of John Taffin's famous "Taffin Tests" is about heavy loaded .41 magnum. I have actually made up some really nice 260 grain BRP hard cast copper gas check rounds and fired them in my Blackhawk. They have about the same recoil as the .44 mag.

[FlyVet]

That sounds good. IIRC, the Marlin will take full-power handloads in 45-70 (?) Is that a custom compensator, or can you actually buy it with compensator?

I had a chance to buy a sporterized Mauser bolt gun in 45-70 at pawn shop for $250. It sat there for a good three years before I PCS'd. Probably shoulda bought it, it was a bargain. As far as that .416 goes...I fired it once, offhand, with a PAST recoil pad...major OUCH! Really rattled my teeth. I wouldn't even dare shoot it off the bench, I'm pretty sure it would break my shoulder. Even shooting my T/C Renegade .54 off the bench all afternoon, I ended up with bursitis, and that doesn't kick any worse than a 12-guage, 1 1/4 oz load.