Posted on 10/28/2003 6:39:55 AM PST by presidio9
I consider it, as a whole, to be the inspired word of God.
I reject that notion. That G-d can arrange a noble result from an ignoble start is part of His Wonder. But that does not mean that the ignoble start is made noble.
I understand and agree that G-d allows us to choose. But as Jesus Himself said (paraphrase), "Temptation will come, but woe be he who brings the temptation. It will be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea."
It doesn't sound like Jesus is proclaiming the sin to be noble.
Shalom.
I'm not sure that is true. And He never contradicted the written word.
Why is the possibility that my faith is strong enough to inspire my own words; entrenched enough as to be illustrated by my own thoughts so abhorrant to you.
It is not. What is abhorrant is when your own words contradict what G-d hath said. Consider the possibility that the words that have been inspired are wrong.
Is God living in me, more than in a book, really so alien a concept?
No. Is human fallability an alien concept to you?
Truth can exist in all of us. It is not held captive in a book.
Lies can exist in all of us too. Since G-d does not change, nor lie, it is prudent to compare what I think to what He has said. If they disagree, I go with what He has said.
Your position is to take the words of the book with which you disagree and toss them, claiming superiority of your own faith. It is from such - often well meaning - that most heresies spring.
It is true that I often find some of the concepts difficult. It is in coming to grips with what G-d has said, particularly when I don't like it, that I grow the most.
Shalom.
Fair enough.
That He is the creator of all things, does not allow that any of them have an ignoble start.
"Jesus Himself said (paraphrase), "Temptation will come, but woe be he who brings the temptation."
Anyone that would bring that temptation has, obviously, not rejected it...as God desires, and asks. Woe unto them indeed.
"It doesn't sound like Jesus is proclaiming the sin to be noble."
True. He is not. Neither am I. I am saying that it serves a noble purpose.
Regardless of our ability to glean it's purpose, it is of His design. It must, by definition, serve a devine purpose. There is nothing more noble than that.
At your request...
2 Timothy 3 (KJV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I note your reluctance to express your faith in your own words, instead adopting, and quoting, those of others. Curious.
Proverbs? The inspired writings of Solomon ? On my best day I wouldn’t even dream of trying to paraphrase his words.
There’s nothing inappropriate about quoting scripture in context. In fact, Paul here was encouraging Timothy (and all Christians) to do just that.
In reference to my initial comment regarding whether or not there are things (behaviors) that the Almighty hates, the only appropriate action was to directly quote Scripture.
Expressing my faith, my testimony, my witness, etc. in my own words certainly has a place. I have written about it here on FR. But in post #113, the direct quotation of Scripture which clearly stated Gods’ view on the subject at hand was the best thing to do.
Sorry if you disagree.
God is more directly involved in my creation than that of the Bible.
Is God involved in your creation, or are you limited to finding Him only in the Bible?
I’m not exactly sure of how you are defining the word creation here.
If you’re asking me “can I see and appreciate the works of the Almighty in my everyday activities”, the answer is YES - without a doubt.
The mathematical precision of the universe, the intelligent design of plants, animals & humans, as well as the free will given to us all are just a few examples.
FReegards
Far better to teach children to engage in the kinds of sex acts they do not like.
No, no.....there is no challenge, or testing, in agreement. I appreciate having articulate & intelligent criticisms & debate. That's why I'm here, & I thank you for that.
"There’s nothing inappropriate about quoting scripture in context."
Scripture is often frighteningly appropos, on a great many subjects. I want to avoid a 'dueling scriptures' contest, in favor of a personal exchange of ideas. I certainly do not wish to exclude scriptural references, but; neither do I want to discount personal witness.
And I am disagreeing with that. G-d takes an ignoble situation (sin) and makes it noble (grace).
I again point you to Paul's question (paraphrased), "Does that mean we should sin more so that G-d can extend more grace? NO WAY!"
If I murder someone, does G-d create the murder?
Shalom.
The passage of time, different kings & tyrants, and translations geared for the political correctness of the day; have injected a fair amount of man's avarice & desire into the Bible. Throughout time, religion has been twisted & distorted for the greater glory of man.
It is in that vein that I believe that "hate" has been attributed to God. 'Hate' is, by definition, an emotion taken to an extreme...an out-of-balance rational, or thought process. It is a pettiness easily associative to man, and very odd to associate with God.
God spoke to the prophets, and inspired the written word. There are a great many scholars today that consider the 'King James' version blasphemy.
Some Bibles say "thou shall not kill", but God actually told Moses "thou shall not murder". A huge difference.
Do I think that the Ten Commandments are the inspire word of God. Yes, most definitly. Do I think God commanded "thou shall not kill". No, not for an instant....in my heart, it makes no sense.
I assume you know this to be true as well. Do I assume correctly?
If a professor tests you on information taught, and you get an answer wrong, did the professor create the wrong answer? No.
The professor provides you with the tools & knowledge needed, and hopes that you will answer correctly. Incorrect responses are not the fault of the test; nor should the test be the focus of anomous.
Although the test offers the opportunity for the student to go wrong, that opportunity is not hateful. Although, many unprepared students do indeed hate the test. This hate is of their own making, not the professor's, or the test's.
Thank you. Also, the wrong answer serves no noble purpose.
In the same vein, G-d did not create sin, and sin serves no noble purpose.
Shalom.
Too true. It is, however, a most interesting exercise, and; potentially a basis in understanding larger concepts of greater import.
For example; a typical sophomoric whine questions Gods' benevolence for allowing so much suffering in the world. The same logic that doubts God suffers the angst of hate, believes that it is man that allows suffering; and that God, despite disappointment, allows man the opportunity to end suffering.
I don't wish to change the subject though, and offer this only to illustrate the springboard effect this train of thought exercises.
Who created sin?
Is He not the creator of all things? What else did He not create?
"...the wrong answer serves no noble purpose."
Giving the wrong answer on your professor's test serves the very purpose you sought his teaching. Is he disappointed with a wrong answer? Yes. Does he hate a wrong answer, perhaps...if he's twisted.
Who created dark?
Is He not the creator of all things?
He is the creator of all things created.
What else did He not create?
Cold, death, indifference, etc.
Shalom.
Herein lies the rub. G-d does hate, but not with any angst.
His hate is no more like our hate than his love is like our love, or his thoughts like our thoughts.
Everything we are is but a shadow of what He is. We are in His image, but it's like a monochrome image of a true-color G-d.
Shalom.
Exactly.
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