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To: MVV
Amazing!

With all that was posted, some people do not read a
thing more than they care to know. They seem to
prefer to wallow in the pits of the half-truths, to perhaps
rid themselves of some hidden guilt they might have.

Terri can not swallow in a voluntary manner. She 
makes swallowing motions involuntarily, just as
her body functions are all involuntary. Her cerebral
cortex is gone and the cavity filled with spinal fluid.

The judge ordered five doctors to give findings. Two
were paid by Terri's "family", two by Terri's husband
and one court ordered neutral. The findings were
conclusive, Terri is in a vegetated state and can not
improve. When there is no cortex, there can be no
improvement. The cerebral cortex can not replenish
itself nor be replaced.

Feeding Terri food/water can cause her to choke to death
unless accomplished via the support system.

In the State of Florida, without a living will to guide
the court, the decision to remove a life support system
is at the discretion of the spouse.

The "feeding tube" in the State of Florida is indeed
considered a "life support system" if life cannot be
supported without it. It has been proven that Terri
cannot swallow voluntarily and will not "learn" to
do that, due to her missing cortex.

There has been no "test" by Terri's "family" that
could ever be reproduced for the courts. The court
had been offered a taped incident, but that incident
has not and can not apparently be repeated for the
court or court appointed Physician.

Comments from posters telling of a swallowing
incident are simply restating the tales of Terri's
"family". There has not been one physician to
give testimony to that "fact", nor give testimony
that it is at all possible for a person missing their
cerebral cortex to be able to swallow in a voluntary
manner.

Removing any "life support system" results in the
life it is supporting; to die naturally. That "natural"
manner of dying can be of the loss of breath, the
loss of heart function, the loss of the ability to
breath, the loss of the process of nourishment,
etc, etc. There is no "natural" way to die, other
than to die. Every method of life support. once
removed, will cause the participant to die.

If Terri was on a respirator,  the cries would be
over her loss of ability to breath without if
it were to be removed. If Terri was on a Cardiac
machine, the cries would be for her "untimely
demise" if removed from it, causing her heart to stop
beating.

There is no "easy way to die", "naturally" or
"un-naturally". It is not a pleasant scene to see,
but it happens daily and will happen to you and
I, eventually.

Terri has been in a vegetated state for over 13 years.

Her soul is now being forced to remain inside
that shell of a body longer.

It's purgatory; government ordered purgatory.

 

3 posted on 10/28/2003 6:03:59 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
If Terri was on a respirator,  the cries would be over her loss of ability to breath without if it were to be removed. If Terri was on a Cardiac machine, the cries would be for her "untimely demise" if removed from it, causing her heart to stop beating.

Not really.

14 posted on 10/28/2003 6:32:47 AM PST by syriacus (Casual comments about tubes, made after watching a 3 handkerchief movie, do not justify euthanasia.)
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To: Deep_6
The findings were conclusive, Terri is in a vegetated state and can not improve.

Not really.

From the article above:

Mrs. Schiavo often turns her head purposefully when people speak to her, according to affidavits filed this year by six neurologists.

16 posted on 10/28/2003 6:37:48 AM PST by syriacus (Casual comments about tubes, made after watching a 3 handkerchief movie, do not justify euthanasia.)
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To: Deep_6
Her cerebral cortex is gone and the cavity filled with spinal fluid.

I'd only believe that if I saw the X-rays or Cat scans myself --- or at least have some doctor Michael wasn't paying to make that claim.

20 posted on 10/28/2003 6:41:58 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Deep_6
There is no "easy way to die", "naturally" or "un-naturally".

Everyone knows that some methods of "ending" a life are more inhumane than others.

21 posted on 10/28/2003 6:42:17 AM PST by syriacus (Casual comments about tubes, made after watching a 3 handkerchief movie, do not justify euthanasia.)
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To: Deep_6
It has been proven that Terri cannot swallow voluntarily and will not "learn" to do that, due to her missing cortex.

It has NOT been so proven. Her husband and the judge refuse to allow her to be tested, even though Florida law requires it be done every six months for someone on a feeding tube.

The court had been offered a taped incident, but that incident has not and can not apparently be repeated for the court or court appointed Physician.

The judge refused to look at any tapes.

The judge ordered five doctors to give findings. Two were paid by Terri's "family", two by Terri's husband and one court ordered neutral. The findings were conclusive, Terri is in a vegetated state and can not improve.

The doctors disagreed with each other. And the one who was neutral, wasn't. He has a personal relationship with George Felos.

With all that was posted, some people do not read a thing more than they care to know. They seem to prefer to wallow in the pits of the half-truths, to perhaps rid themselves of some hidden guilt they might have.

How funny. What a perfect description of you, based on your posts on the Terri threads.

43 posted on 10/28/2003 8:10:21 AM PST by BlessedBeGod
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To: Deep_6
You don't read too well, do you ?
"When we come to visit, she'll see us and laugh ear-to-ear," said Bob Schindler, Mrs. Schiavo's father. "Her mother will hug her goodbye and Terri will start to cry." Mrs. Schiavo often turns her head purposefully when people speak to her, according to affidavits filed this year by six neurologists. She makes guttural sounds that appear to be attempts at speech. She also opens her eyes during the day and closes them at night to sleep.

A total of nine neurologists have also stated that Terri Schiavo is not in PVS. "It is obvious to me that Ms. Schiavo is a viable human being who is at least semi-responsive to her environment," physician Richard Neubauer stated in a May 2001 affidavit. Dr. Neubauer is a recognized expert in hyperbaric oxygen therapy, a type of treatment he believes might improve Terri's condition. "She is not brain dead nor is she in a persistent vegetative state."

Though Michael Schiavo claims today that his wife said she would not want to live cognitively disabled, receiving food through a tube, he apparently forgot that statement when, on Nov. 5, 1992, he sat in the witness box in Courtroom B of the Pinellas County Courthouse in Clearwater, Fla. From behind a wooden railing to his left, six jurors could see that he was a blond young man, tall and strong, but with blue eyes drawn with grief. It had been nearly three years since Mrs. Schiavo's heart attack. While she lay institutionalized at Mediplex, a nearby rehabilitation facility, her husband's attorneys laid out for the jury in Courtroom B a malpractice case against Stephen Igel, a Pinellas County doctor Mr. Schiavo said could have prevented his wife's seizure.

Mr. Schiavo's then-attorney Glenn Woodworth let the jury know that his client had enrolled in nursing school to learn to care for his wife, and that he wanted to care for her at home.

"If you had the resources available to you,"
Mr. Woodworth asked, alluding in part to any malpractice award the jury might grant, "if you had the equipment and the people, would you do that?"

"Yes, I would—in a heartbeat," Mr. Schiavo replied. "She's my life and I wouldn't trade her for the world." Grief closed Mr. Schiavo's throat and he seemed unable to go on. He bowed his head while Mr. Woodworth asked the judge to grant a moment of pause. Then, collecting himself, Mr. Schiavo continued haltingly: "I believe in the vows that I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poorer. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."

On Nov. 10, 1992, the jury awarded Michael and Terri Schiavo nearly $2 million for damages, future rehabilitation, and medical care. Three months later, Michael Schiavo received the money. Four months after that, he made his first attempt to end his wife's life.

Shortly after receiving the malpractice money, Mr. Schiavo moved Mrs. Schiavo from the Mediplex rehab facility to Sabal Palms nursing home. There, he added a "Do Not Resuscitate" order to his wife's medical record and in July directed caregivers to withhold from her antibiotics needed to treat a urinary tract infection. He knew, he later said in a deposition, that his wife would likely develop sepsis—poisoning of the bloodstream—and die. Nursing home employees refused to comply, saying such an act would be illegal.

The Schindlers contend that Mr. Schiavo's attempt to end his wife's life so soon after pleading with a malpractice jury for money to pay for her care and rehabilitation show that he either misled the jury or is lying to the court now about Mrs. Schiavo's "oral living will." If she said she would not want her life sustained by artificial means, why would Mr. Schiavo sue for her long-term care? If he sued hoping his wife would recover, but now wants to disconnect her feeding tube because she has not progressed during the past eight years, why did he try to end her life just four months after receiving the funds to rehabilitate her?

During the 2000 trial, neurologist James Barnhill testified on behalf of Mr. Schiavo about Mrs. Schiavo's condition. Based on his review of her CAT scans, he told the court that most of her brain was destroyed, replaced by scar tissue and spinal fluid, leaving her no hope of recovery. But Florida neurologist William Hammesfahr, in a June 2001 affidavit, stated that his own review of Mrs. Schiavo's CAT scans revealed significant, viable brain tissue. "The CAT scan readings or MRI readings of Ms. Schiavo's brain were misrepresented to the court during the trial in January 2000," Dr. Hammesfahr said.

Mr. Schiavo declined to be interviewed for this article and has not allowed new doctors to examine Mrs. Schiavo in person. On June 25, 2001, Tampa Bay television reporter Laura McElroy asked him why: "There's six doctors who say that they could help Terri. Why not let them examine her?" Mr. Schiavo responded, "That would be up to the judge." Ms. McElroy asked, "But would you like to see Terri improve if there's that possibility?" He responded, "Ah, Terri has been through years and years of rehabilitation. There's no more improvement for Terri."

49 posted on 10/28/2003 10:13:19 AM PST by Quester
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To: Deep_6
You posted this bilge earlier on another thread... I'll repost my reply for the viewing audience at home:

If she is cognizant within her body, she can learn, pray, and "be" with those who love her. She is a child of God like any other disabled person and deserves a chance at life. At the very least, she should be given a chance at rehab before we pronounce her a vegetable.

If she is not cognizant within her body, then there is no pain in her death or her life. If we assume she is "brain dead" and then kill her, it is irreversible. If we assume she is alive in there and preserve her, the decision can be reversed at any time.

Erring on the side of life in this case is the only logical solution.

Deep_6: With all that was posted, some people do not read a thing more than they care to know.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

54 posted on 10/28/2003 12:47:57 PM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Deep_6
But nobody would even starve an animal to death. Wouldn't your argument be more humane if you just suggested that the doctors or Mr Schiavo just shoot her and get it over with?
63 posted on 10/28/2003 5:07:35 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (There is nothing Democratic about the Democrat party.)
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To: Deep_6
With a name like Deep_6, you certainly seem to be an authority on death.
75 posted on 10/28/2003 7:37:32 PM PST by streetpreacher
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