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Continuation for Request of Intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo
Children of God for Life ^ | 10-27-03 | Debra L. Vinnedge

Posted on 10/27/2003 1:57:30 PM PST by cpforlife.org


Date:    October 27, 2003

To:       Attorney General John Ashcroft
           
Delegate Bob Marshall

Ref:      Continuation for Request of Intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo (October 21st) 

As in previous letters dated October 21st, 22nd and 23rd, this letter serves as our request for urgent action on behalf of Terri Schiavo by Federal officials.  We are asking for:

An immediate criminal investigation of Michael Schiavo, Judge George Greer and the Federally funded Woodside Hospice Center in Pinellas Park Fl, all who have grossly violated Terri Schiavo’s rights under both State and Federal statutes.

We further request an immediate intervention to provide protective custody and care for Terri Schiavo.

Please see attached statements which overwhelmingly substantiate the need for urgent action on your part.

Sincerely,

Debra L. Vinnedge

Cc:       Robert & Mary Schindler, Robert Schindler Jr., Suzanne Carr (family)
            Dr. Jay Carpenter, Dr. William Hammesfahr, Jana Carpenter, RN, Eleanor Dreschel, RN, Msgr. Thaddeus Malanowski

Attachment Pages 1-4


Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo

1) Nurses’ testimony: Heidi Law, Carla Sauer-Iyer, Carolyn Johnson have been ignored and dismissed without hearing; each testified that Michael was abusive to Terri and may have attempted to kill her by insulin injection and attempts to induce pneumonia by turning the thermostat in her room to 64 degrees.

2) Michael Baden, top forensic pathologist in country and interviewed on Fox News National Television broadcast October 25, 2003 on Terri’s bone scan and injuries states that:

            a) Terri’s injuries are not consistent with a heart attack; no cardiac evidence to support it
           
b) Extremely rare for potassium imbalance on woman her age and in her good health
           
c) Injuries are consistent with severe trauma possibly caused by a beating
            d) The injuries in medical records warrant an immediate investigation

3) Dr. William Hammesfahr, Nobel prize nominee and neurologist testified that Terri’s neck injuries are consistent with only one type of injury: that of strangulation.

4) Terri’s doctor, Dr. Gambone resigned; he had previously testified Terri would die within a few days of starvation/dehydration.  Terri has an obvious will to live.

5) Michael has enlisted the services of a new doctor, Stanton Tripodis, who has 5 malpractice suits against him.  Clearly, Michael is attempting to provide sub-standard care for his wife.

            Case no. 97007946C1 filed 11-25-97
            Case no. 94003739C1 filed
6-27-94
           
Case no. 95000873C1 filed
2-14-95
           
Case no. 96001434C1 filed
3-6-96
           
Case no. 98002289C1 filed
4-7-98

6) Michael is committing adultery by living with another woman who has already born one child with another on the way, thereby creating an obvious conflict of interest as guardian.

7) Michael has committed both perjury (2 counts) and insurance fraud by promising to provide care and therapy for his wife in exchange for the court award of 1.2 million dollars in 1993.  No care has ever been provided to Terri.

8) Michael Schiavo has also prevented Terri from undergoing a barium swallow test, a procedure necessary to ascertain the consistency of foods able to be taken by mouth.

9) Co-conspirator George J. Felos combined and conspired with Michael Schiavo to arrange for Terri's "free" stay at Hospice Woodside as part of an "exit protocol" designed to advance Felos' self-perceived messianic mission of "helping" incapacitated people to die by categorizing them as "terminal," warehousing them, and depriving them of therapy and rehabilitation services. (Attorney Felos is Director of Florida Right to Die and has testified that he can ascertain a person’s desire to die by “looking into their eyes and letting their spirit speak directly to him”)

10) Investigate Insurance company established in Jan 2001 at the home of Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend/fiancee Jody Centonze. (Jerger and Centonze Insurnace Agency Inc.) Michael is listed on the Board of Directors for the corporation.  Note: Insurance is deliberately misspelled in the State of Florida Corporate filing, possibly to avoid investigation.

11) Michael continues to deny Terri the right to receive Holy Communion as part of her Catholic and civil right.

Criminal Investigation of Greer for Prejudice and Judicial Misconduct

1) Refusal to hear credible testimony

Judge Greer refused to acknowledge testimony of 10 doctors and 3 nurses who have cared for Terri and who testify that:

            a) Terri is not in a persistive vegetative state

            b) Terri is able to be rehabilitated with care and therapy

c) Terri’s original injuries are questionable and consistent with spouse abuse and attempted strangulation

d) Terri has been abused and neglected by her husband; denied treatment for infection and possible attempted murder while in nursing home care (discovery of empty insulin vial and temperature in room set at 64 degrees)

Jude Greer instead chose to believe contrary testimony by two of Michael’s representatives who are:

a) A doctor who rarely sees Terri  (Dr. Gambone who has now resigned as Terri’s doctor)

b) Ronald Cranford, Hannipeg County Medical Center , Minnesota who makes an avocation of testifying in cases such as Terri's throughout the country, always on the side of dehydration and starvation.

Example of testimony ignored:
Dr. Alexander T. Gimon, Clinical Neuro-psychologist, presents evidence that Terri Schiavo does indeed have cognitive function and should receive therapy: "Given the neglect which Terri has suffered...it is striking that her current cognitive functioning is as strong and varied in expression as it is. This indicates that sufficient brain structure exists for further cognitive and behavioral progress to be made. Terri is an excellent subject for a variety of cognitive treatment protocols designed to improve her neurological function, including neuroaerobics, physical therapy, recreational/occupational therapy, and speech-language therapy."

2) Judicial Canon violation – motion to dismiss Greer

a) Greer revealed information about the case, predisposition as to how he would rule, merits of the case, testimony he had received to local reporters without counsel present.

b)Judge Greer advised Tampa Atty General office that if Gov Bush was a lawyer, his letter to the judge would be a grievous offense under Fl Bar rules; statements made without counsel present.

c) Motion to Disqualify Judge Greer filed on Fri. Sept 5th at which time Judge Greer contacted Deputy Atty General John Carassas and Sheriff Rice in an attempt to attack the factual basis of the motion and affidavits.

3) Conflict of Interest and Prejudice

Judge George Greer is not impartial. He has worked side by side as county commissioner with Barbara Sheen Todd (county commissioner) for eight years. Barbara Sheen Todd is on the board of the hospice. Also, Judge Greer's fellow judge, Judge John Lenderman is the brother of Martha Lenderman, also on the hospice board. Greer accepted as the basis of his rulings, the questionable testimony of Michael Schiavo that Terri would wish to be killed, yet Michael never stated this until he had received the 1.2 million dollar settlement. Greer also accepted as the basis of his rulings, the "opinion" of a third doctor who is the brother of a close associate of George Felos, right-to-kill attorney, and very significantly, former Chairman of the hospice board.

4) Denial of Guardian appointment to Ensure Medical Care

Judge Greer refused to allow a non-biased guardian to be appointed for Terri’s care, despite numerous citations of the violation of Terri’s rights under State and Federal Law for disabled persons, including assignment of guardian as a requirement under Fl Law, Section 744.  Moreover, in the state court proceedings initiated by defendant Michael Schiavo, Terri Schiavo, a severely disabled individual, had no guardian ad litem and no lawyer for the majority of the proceedings. Attorney Pearse who was assigned by the court in 1998 was dismissed from the case by the state court on motion by Michael Schiavo’s attorney George J. Felos.

5) ABUSE, NEGLECT, AND EXPLOITATION OF ELDERLY PERSONS AND DISABLED ADULTS

"... 825.103 Exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties.--

(1) "Exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult" means:

(a) Knowingly, by deception or intimidation, obtaining or using, or endeavoring to obtain or use, an elderly person's or disabled adult's funds, assets, or property with the intent to temporarily or permanently deprive the elderly person or disabled adult of the use, benefit, or possession of the funds, assets, or property, or to benefit someone other than the elderly person or disabled adult, by a person who:[Felos and Greer need to be investigated by the State of Florida and the US Attorney General.]

1. Stands in a position of trust and confidence with the elderly person or disabled adult; or

2. Has a business relationship with the elderly person or disabled adult; or

(b) Obtaining or using, endeavoring to obtain or use, or conspiring with another to obtain or use an elderly person's or disabled adult's funds, assets, or property with the intent to temporarily or permanently deprive the elderly person or disabled adult of the use, benefit, or possession of the funds, assets, or property, or to benefit someone other than the elderly person or disabled adult, by a person who knows or reasonably should know that the elderly person or disabled adult lacks the capacity to consent.

(2)(a) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $100,000 or more, the offender commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. [Terri's fund reportedly only has $50,000 left. Felos himself has admitted receiving $500,000 to assist in killing Terri.]

(b) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $20,000 or more, but less than $100,000, the offender commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult is valued at less than $20,000, the offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

History.--s. 4, ch. 95-158; s. 5, ch. 96-322; s. 1, ch. 97-78.

Criminal Investigation of Hospice On the Following Counts:

1) Conflict of interest; violation of federal policy: Mary Laybak, CEO of Woodside Hospice has direct ties to Euthanasia Society of America and Hemlock for Hospice, an organization that seeks to accelerate the dying process.  Federal funds may not be used for these purposes (see below)

2) Hospice is a federally funded program designed for terminally ill and those whose death is eminent.  Terri has been in Hospice illegally for three years under Medicaid payments.

3) US Dept of Health and Human Services is currently trying to collect  $14.8 million from Florida Suncoast Hospice, owed to them since 1997. 

4) Hospice is accused of patient brokering and several lawsuits filed by Attorney Jonathan Alpert are pending.

5) Violation of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, 29 U.S.C. §794, prohibits discrimination against an "otherwise qualified" handicapped individual, solely by reason of his or her handicap, under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. Hospitals and hospices that accept Medicare and Medicaid funding are subject to the Act...." Hospice Woodside is subject to the Act because it receives federal funding.

6) The Americans With Disabilities Act (A.D.A.), 42 U.S.C. Sections 12101 et seq., provides that necessary and appropriate rehabilitation services and physical/motor skill therapy not be denied a substantially disabled patient in the United States of America.

Moreover, the pertinent federal regulations for implementation of the A.D.A. specifically provide that "Nothing in the Act or this part authorizes the representative or guardian of an individual with a disability to decline food, water, medical treatment, or medical services for that individual." (cf. 28 C.F.R. Ch. 1, Subpart B, Section 35.130) The failure and refusal of defendant Michael Schiavo, acting under the color of state law, to furnish Theresa Marie Schiavo with necessary and appropriate speech and motor skills therapy, rehabilitation services, and the basic essential medical services, and his demand that she be deprived of food and water, violate her rights under the A.D.A. and constitute unlawful discrimination against her because of her disability.

7) Under Federal Statute TITLE 42  CHAPTER 138 Sec. 14402. Sec. 14402. - Restriction on use of Federal funds under health care programs

(a) Restriction on Federal funding of health care services

 

Subject to subsection (b) of this section, no funds appropriated by Congress for the purpose of paying (directly or indirectly) for the provision of health care services may be used -

(1) to provide any health care item or service furnished for the purpose of causing, or for the purpose of assisting in causing, the death of any individual, such as by assisted suicide, euthanasia, or mercy killing;

 

Nothing in subsection (a) of this section, or in any other provision of this chapter (or in any amendment made by this chapter), shall be construed to apply to or to affect any limitation relating to -

(1) the withholding or withdrawing of medical treatment or medical care;

(2) the withholding or withdrawing of nutrition or hydration;

(3) abortion; or

(4) the use of an item, good, benefit, or service furnished for the purpose of alleviating pain or discomfort, even if such use may increase the risk of death, so long as such item, good, benefit, or service is not also furnished for the purpose of causing, or the purpose of assisting in causing, death, for any reason.


October 23, 2003

To:       Delegate Bob Marshall
           
Attorney General John Ashcroft

Ref:      Denial of Civil Rights Continues:  Letter 3 
           
In Continuation of complaint sent October 21st on behalf of Terri Schiavo

Oct 22nd (AM)
Upon arrival at
Morton Plant Hospital , where Terri was brought under the Governor’s order for ambulatory care, Michael Schiavo mandated the hospital to block all information on the patient and any visits to Terri’s parents, her siblings and their family priest have been denied.

3:15pm
Morton Plant Hospital Nurse, Melanie MacAuliffe refuses to acknowledge Terri is a patient at the hospital to attorneys for the family.  Attorneys filed an emergency motion to restore visitation at once.

5:15pm
Michael’s attorney Debra Bushnell faxed a letter to the parents’ attorney, Pat Anderson authorizing the family visits. The family priest, Msgr. Malanowski was not included in their letter and was still barred from visiting Terri.

6:30
When the family arrived to visit Terri, they discovered she had been moved to “an undisclosed location”.  The family was not notified she would be moved, nor were they told where she would be taken and no medical information as to the status of Terri’s health was provided.

Wed Night (time of arrival unknown)
Terri was returned to hospice and her feeding tube was reinserted.  Terri is still being refused the right to receive Holy Communion as part of her Catholic Rite.

Mr. Ashcroft, it is clear that Mr. Schiavo and his attorney have absolute disregard for the best interests of Terri Schiavo.  After starving her for 7 days with no food or water, she has now once again been prematurely released from the hospital. On August 14th of this year, Terri was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia and three days later, Michael ordered her to be released. She would spend the next two weeks in and out of the hospital due to the instruction of Michael to have her sent back to hospice, despite her fever and obvious labored breathing from a collapsed lung. 

Michael Schiavo has attempted to further her debilitation and weaken her condition and must be immediately removed from any guardianship concerning her medical care and therapy.  He has continued to spit in the face of Governor Bush, the Fl Senate and House with no regard for the care that Terri was awarded by the courts.  

The court today ordered a guardian ad litem to be assigned for litigation only and this will not provide the relief and protection regarding medical and therapeutic care that Terri is entitled to as a disabled American, under both Federal and Florida law.  We ask for your immediate intercession to remove Terri from her husband’s care.

 Sincerely,

 Debra L. Vinnedge  

CC:    Robert & Mary Schindler, Robert Schindler Jr., Suzanne Carr (family)Dr. Jay Carpenter, Dr. William             Hammesfahr, Jana Carpenter, RN, Eleanor Dreschel, RN, Msgr. Thaddeus Malanowski


October 22, 2003

To:       Delegate Bob Marshall
   
         Attorney General John Ashcroft

Ref:      Continued Denial of Civil Rights – Terri Schiavo

October 21st
A Catholic miraculous medal of the Blessed Virgin Mary that had been blessed by Pope John Paul II was brought to Terri Schiavo to be placed on her person, bedside or where she could visibly see it in her room at Woodside Hospice.  However, the medal could not be given to her because in fact, all religious holy cards of various saints and various Catholic artifacts had been removed from her room and thrown away.  We were fore-warned that if the medal was placed anywhere in her room or on her body it would be thrown away.

October 21st 5:00PM    
The Executive Order signed by Governor Bush to immediately begin hydration and nutrition was received at Hospice by both fax transmission and official delivery.  Hospice refused to reinsert the feeding tube, claiming there was no medical personnel to do so, despite the fact that they were the ones who removed it on October 15th.  They promised to transfer Terri to a local hospital as quickly as possible.

In addition, two medical doctors had been summoned to Hospice and were denied entrance to perform the procedure as indicated by Governor Jeb Bush.  They were also denied access to observe the patient and her condition.

6:30PM
An ambulance arrived to take Terri to Morton
Plant Hospital in Clearwater.  Upon arrival at the hospital, medical staff refused to comply with the Governor’s order to re-insert her feeding tube or an IV, stating they had been threatened with litigation by Michael Schiavo’s attorneys if any medical care was given to Terri.  At approximately 9:30PM an IV was inserted.

Michael Schiavo has denied visitation at the hospital to all members of Terri’s family.

A request for immediate appointment of a guardian ad litem to protect Terri’s medical interests and physical well being was denied by Judge David A. Demers.

In light of the fact that the court order to provide therapy for Terri Schiavo under the malpractice settlement has been denied by the husband; that he has access to Terri and can cause her harm and that he clearly does not represent her best interests, we request immediate intervention to:

1) Appoint a guardian ad litem to protect Terri Schiavo’s interests and ensure she is given proper medical treatment.

2) Open an immediate criminal investigation which has never been conducted in this case.

3) Block the cremation of Terri’s body should death ensue, so that evidence is not destroyed.

4) Restore the rights of visitation and access to the family.

Sincerely,

Debra L. Vinnedge


Date:     October 21, 2003

To:        Attorney General John Aschcroft

 

On Behalf of Theresa Maria Schiavo - Violation of Civil Rights Against the Handicapped

 

We the undersigned family, friends and medical caregivers of Theresa (Terri) Maria Schiavo request an immediate investigation and emergency intervention to stop her starvation dehydration death due to the following violations of her civil rights under the US Constitution:

 

Denial of Civil Rights by Michael Schiavo, husband:

 

By court order in a malpractice suit filed by Michael Schiavo in 1993, $700,000.00 of the settlement was to be used exclusively for Theresa’s rehabilitation.  To date, no rehabilitation, medical or physical therapy has ever been provided to Terri.

 

Upon receipt of the award in 1993 medical records were ordered sealed by Michael Schiavo.  Ten years later these records were unsealed and would reveal massive injury and a history of possible domestic violence and abuse.

 

While under nursing home and hospice care, Michael Schiavo ordered no physical therapy, oral feeding or treatment for Terri. He further directed that Terri only be sustained in a nursing home which is contrary to the intent of the award money.  Michael Schiavo has on two occasions unsuccessfully attempted to end Terri’s life by instructing her caretakers not to medicate Terri for potentially fatal infections, the first of which occurred less than nine months after receiving the malpractice award money.

As Terri’s legal guardian, her husband has used her medical fund money to offset the legal costs when his guardianship of Terri was initially challenged and to pay the current legal costs to have Terri’s life ended.

May 1, 2000 A Court hearing was cancelled after Michael Schiavo verbally committed to sign an agreement that Terri will get the necessary medical treatment at Hospice.

June 18, 2000 – After reneging on his previously agreed terms of the agreement, Michael Schiavo later signed an amended agreement stating he will not withdraw or terminate Terri's medical care or treatment for potential fatal infections, without prior notice to the court.

 

Denial of Civil Rights by Judge Greer:

 

February 2000 – Judge Greer condemns Terri to death by dehydration/starvation without any clear and convincing evidence as required by statute.  There is no written living directive.

 

March 2000 – Sworn affidavits provided to the court by three physicians that Terri is able to eat.  Judge Greer denies a petition to the court to perform swallowing tests on Terri, part of her court-ordered therapy. 

 

Judge Greer further authorized personal security personnel costs for Michael Schiavo to be taken from Terri’s medical fund.

 

May 7, 2001 – Dr. Hammesfahr (neurology), filed a six page affidavit with the court stating Terri was not in a Persistent Vegetative State, accompanied by a formal letter requesting Schiavo’s permission to allow Terri to begin rehabilitation treatment; request denied.

 

September 26, 2001 A three-member panel consisting of Judges Jerry Parker, Chris Altenbernd and John Blue presided at the Appellate Court "oral argument hearing." The core of the appeal is that Judge Greer did not follow the Appellate Court's July 11, 2001 instructions. Judge Greer admitted he ignored the doctors’ sworn opinions and summarily rejected additional evidence that unmistakably proved Michael Schiavo lied to the court at the original trial.

NOTE: NO CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION HAS EVER BEEN CONDUCTED IN THIS CASE AND ATTEMPTS TO DEMAND SUCH INVESTIGATION HAVE BEEN SUMMARILY DENIED AND BLOCKED UNDER COURT ORDER OF JUDGE GREER. IMMEDIATE CREMATION OF THE BODY WILL OCCUR UPON HER DEATH, THUS DESTROYING ALL CRIMINAL EVIDENCE.

 

Denial of Civil Rights by Michael Schiavo’s appointed physicians:

 

There is no court order to deny Terri Schiavo oral feeding.  This was put in place by Michael Schiavo’s appointed doctors, in direct violation of the previous court orders to provide therapy and rehabilitation for Terri.

 

Denial of Civil Rights by Pinellas Park Police, Michael Schiavo and his attorneys:

On October 15th at 2:00PM Terri’s feeding tube was removed.  Although the court does not deny the right to provide oral hydration or feeding, the doctor’s orders to hospice are to prohibit any type of oral feeding.

 

On October 18th, 19th and 20th Monsignor Thaddeus Malanowski was refused the right to administer Holy Communion to Terri as part of her Catholic Last Rites.  This order was expressed directly by Michael Schiavo, his attorneys and the local police guarding Terri’s room who told the priest they would “stop him if he attempted to give her Holy Communion.”

 

It is a criminal violation to abuse, neglect or exploit a disabled person, all of which have been perpetrated on Terri Schaivo and we petition your immediate intervention and investigation.

 

 

Presented by:    Debra L. Vinnedge

                        Mary and Bob Schindler

                        Robert Schindler, JR

                        Suzanne Carr

                        William Hammesfahr, MD

                        J.D. Young, MD

                        James Eckart, MD

                        Jay Carpenter, MD

                        Eleanor Dreschel, RN, MS

                        Jana Carpenter, RN, MS

                        Msgr. Thaddeus Malanowsk

 

STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PINELLAS
Filed this 21st Day of October, 2003  


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: cogforlife; culture; debivinnedge; oflife; ordeath; removemichael; terrischiavo
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To: TheAngryClam
Funny how you rely on one court's decision that Mumia was a cop killer, but refuse to abide by another's that Terri is a vegetable.

Mumia's decision has been appealed to the nth degree and then some, as all capital convictions are.

As far as I can tell, no judge is willing to even review Greer's finding that Michael is an acceptable guardian in light of the overwhelming conflicts of interest he has.

Your characterization of Terri as a vegetable is stunning but not surprising. This puts you in the crowd that says all of her reactions are reflexive and not actually in response to the stimuli around her. Perhaps you're right, but we'll never know until there is a meaningful and sustained attempt to treat her. You apparently don't know (or don't care) that she made some progress in the couple of years Mikey was litigating, but regressed after Mikey got his money, cut off all therapy, and began engaging in systematic neglect.

If you really feel that she's a vegetable after seeing the videos, heaven help any of your loved ones who become seriously disabled or brain-damaged if you have any input into their care.

And even if I agreed that she is PVS beyond repair (which I don't), based on the previous paragraph, MIKEY INTENTIONALLLY MADE HER THAT WAY. So does he get rewarded by getting free rein to kill her? I don't think so. Does the state prosecute him for the neglect he has perpetrated, keeping her around as Exhibit A? Not a bad idea. How about a compromise? He turns Terri over to her family to care or her. As much as I'd like to nail him, I'd let him walk if he'd just turn her loose. I'd even forgive him and not prosecute him for the myriad of crimes he has definitely and/or likely committed over the past 13 years.

And if the above is the best response you can come up with to my post, your position is weak indeed. Funny-ha ha ha.

121 posted on 10/27/2003 7:01:58 PM PST by litany_of_lies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: Normally a Lurker
If you noticed, I put the mention of heart attacks and bulimia as a question. Thank you for answering.

I have been following this from the beginning and trying to get all the facts.

I have some questions that are still not answered, but I am very informed of exactly what is going on and what has happened.

The fact that you insist on grouping all the people here on FR who have a genuine concern and have very good reasons to believe that Michael may be hiding something, as people who do not let facts get in their way, shows me you don't know the facts of this case, and don't care either. By separating people on FR into my crowd and your crowd, you do nothing but cause animosity and do nothing to clarify the facts of the case.

If you really believe you 'know' the facts, let's see them.

Show me proof that Terri was diagnosed by a doctor as having suffered a heart attack. Show me proof that Terri was diagosed for Potassium overbalance. Explain to 'my crowd' why Michael curtailed treatments for Terri a long time ago that would have given her a chance to rehabilitate. Or, are you saying that you know for a fact that Terri is braindead? Why would Michael refuse to allow her OWN PARENTS to take her from the hospice and take her home, to get better, or to die?

I am all ears.

122 posted on 10/27/2003 7:03:20 PM PST by UCANSEE2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: The Coopster
But...I thought government was too big, and poked their nose in too much already......?

You raise a good question and it deserves a good answer.

The answer is that this government (the way it was designed by our founding fathers) is not welcome to snoop into just anyone's affairs.

This government is (supposed to be) a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

When the people get together, believing there is an unjust action going on, and petition the government to step in and halt a potential murder until all issues are settled, then the government is doing what it is supposed to do. Follow the will of the people that give it it's power.

Or, have you not read the Constitution?

123 posted on 10/27/2003 7:08:00 PM PST by UCANSEE2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: UCANSEE2
Don't you mean "potassium imbalance," not over (which could kill her, pronto), but a depletion of potassium which would render her unconscious.

Did you watch Larry King tonight?

124 posted on 10/27/2003 7:08:21 PM PST by lakey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: tutstar
"What's Geraldo's screen name?" ... I have no idea. I pinged him to the thread by sending him an e-mail at Fox with the URL in it.
125 posted on 10/27/2003 7:09:22 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: TheAngryClam
You need to move on. Nobody cares what you write, clamup.
126 posted on 10/27/2003 7:10:49 PM PST by Lion in Winter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: TheAngryClam
Funny how you rely on one court's decision that Mumia was a cop killer, but refuse to abide by another's that Terri is a vegetable.

Funny how you take the word of an adulterer, the word of a judge with monetary ties to the hospice, and a lawyer that professes to encourage terminating the life of those he finds wasting money he could use himself, over the words of her parents.

My, my, my, one wonders what life you must have led.

Just remember, if the group the judge, the lawyer, and the hospice board of directors is involved in establish legal precedents, don't break your leg.

127 posted on 10/27/2003 7:12:37 PM PST by UCANSEE2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Felos is in the league of satan.... he is fallen-away from the Greek Orthodox Christian Church. He doesn't want any CHRISTIAN symbols because he serves a DIFFERENT master. One with horns and a long tail!
128 posted on 10/27/2003 7:13:56 PM PST by Lion in Winter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Normally a Lurker; Admin Moderator; T'wit
mr. n. lurker,

ARE YOU CALLING THE TERRI SUPPORTERS LIARS OR ARE YOU QUESTIONING THEIR HONOR?

129 posted on 10/27/2003 7:18:46 PM PST by Lion in Winter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: lakey
Thank You. Potassium imbalance. I am not a doctor, nor a chemical expert. (not much of a wordsmith, either)

No, I didn't watch Larry King.

I still have some unanswered questions about Terri's case. But the major factor I see is that before they kill her, what harm would it do to have an an impartial doctor make an examination to determine if she should be considered hopeless? Even so, she was not on life support. She was being fed. Many paralyzed people have to be fed. I guess we are supposed to go along with killing them too? I would like to see any medical report that proves she is braindead.

Wouldn't an EEG show this?

So far, Michaels doctors have said only that 'she has no consciousness'. Wonder if they used a dowsing rod to determine that or flipped a coin?

130 posted on 10/27/2003 7:22:39 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: lakey
From a few months after Tewrri collapsed to the day the money was won in the lawsuit, Michael showed an effort to find therapy for Terri. She actually was making some progress. As soon as the money arrived, Michael stopped 'wasting funds' to have rehabilitation therapy for Terri. In 1998 or 1999, Mr. Pearse, the state appointed GAL filed complaint with the Greer court that Michael was not providing therapy or even treatment for infections for Terri. Pearse also registered his testimony that Michael had too many conflicts of interest to be Terri's guardian, to be in charge of Terri's life and death decisions. In 2000, Michael was authorized by Greer to have hydration and food with held from Terri so that she would die. At that point, the only money from the awarded trust fund in the lawsuit, that was deposited for Terri's rehabilitation, spent was that authorized by Greer to be plundered in order to pay euthanasia atty, Felos. None of the $750,000 awarded for Terri's rehabilitation was ever spent on Terri, just Michael's efforts to have her put down.
131 posted on 10/27/2003 7:23:36 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Poohbah
that people can and do freeze in a crisis.

This is a fact. The information I have is that Michael called her brother. If he had the 'sense' to make a phone call, one would think he would have called 911 (or whatever emergency number they had back then).

Of course, we weren't there and we aren't him.

132 posted on 10/27/2003 7:25:11 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: lakey
Thank for the info. Also, I'm glad that you've gained additional perspective - as have I.
133 posted on 10/27/2003 7:25:13 PM PST by Normally a Lurker
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To: UCANSEE2
Which is why no higher court would review the ruling, right? Are all of them in on it too?

What's it like worrying about black helicopters all day?
134 posted on 10/27/2003 7:25:53 PM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: UCANSEE2
Tonight, I think it was Felos who said she is not braindead. But she has no consciousness. The tapes we have viewed are small portions of a 4 1/2 hour tape!!

Watch a re-run if you can.

135 posted on 10/27/2003 7:31:17 PM PST by lakey
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To: UCANSEE2
Hypokalemia (low K+; low potassium; hyperkalemia is too high potassium) can cause a heart attack, but if such occurs there are enzymes that are released into the blood stream from the damaged heart muscle which indicate heart attack. No such enzymatic evidence exists to substantiate that Terri suffered a kalemic oriented heart attack. Also, the written description of the emergency squad that arrived to deal with Terri is very very different from what Michael Schiavo claimed were his actions (during the LK program). For instance, the EMT reprot states her position as face down on the floor, hands up toward her neck; MS claimed he cradled Terri in his arms until the EMT's arrived.
136 posted on 10/27/2003 7:33:07 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
I know many are, for very good reason, emotionally involved in this.

To be fair, maybe Terri did suffer a collapse due to a weakened heart, poor cirulation, and suffered from lack of oxygen to the brain.

Michael appears to have actually taken care of her for quite a while, until he met another woman. At some point, one must consider that Michael has the right to 'move on with his life'.

Had he divorced Terri, turned over management of the lawsuit funds to her parents, and 'gone on', there would be no problem.

But, he didn't. He got involved with some people with some very bad plans, and they may have got him to believe he will be rewarded (monetary, favors, who knows).

The idea that he may have attempted strangulation is something that we may never know the truth of, and should have been investigated when the supposed proof first surfaced.

I still say give the woman and EEG and if she is not braindead, then CASE CLOSED, LET HER LIVE. Even if she is braindead, Michael could prove he was a man, a human being, a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever God fearing person and let her parents make that decision. It's not his money anyway.

137 posted on 10/27/2003 7:34:59 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: TheAngryClam
Which is why no higher court would review the ruling, right? Are all of them in on it too?

Rules regarding trial court findings of fact:

  1. In all findings of fact, the trial court is always right.
  2. When the trial court is wrong, refer to rule #1.
Occasionally, an appeals court will reverse and remand a trial court for failing to consider the exact right set of evidence, but it's entirely up to the trial court judge to decide if he finds the different evidence relevant. If a trial court judge makes a decision which flies in the face of 99.44% of the evidence before him, but says he 'considered' all the evidence he should have, no appeals court will question his decision.
138 posted on 10/27/2003 7:35:10 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: lakey
Felos and MS claim that the baloon tape is part of a 4 1/2 hour tape fiel, but the examiner who made the baloon tape was with her only twenty minutes and his diagnosis is the one upon which Greer (without watching the tape) based his finding that terri was in PVS. There was much dissembling nad obfuscation, as well as mischracterization during the Felos/Schiavo interview with Larry.
139 posted on 10/27/2003 7:36:33 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: TheAngryClam
Also, one thing I get from FR is experience. There are people that discuss and debate, and there are those that will never answer questions, and just like to tell everyone what idiots they are. Why won't you answer any questions?
140 posted on 10/27/2003 7:36:38 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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