Continuation for Request of Intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo

Children of God for Life ^ | 10-27-03 | Debra L. Vinnedge

[litany_of_lies]

Funny how you rely on one court's decision that Mumia was a cop killer, but refuse to abide by another's that Terri is a vegetable.

Mumia's decision has been appealed to the nth degree and then some, as all capital convictions are.

As far as I can tell, no judge is willing to even review Greer's finding that Michael is an acceptable guardian in light of the overwhelming conflicts of interest he has.

Your characterization of Terri as a vegetable is stunning but not surprising. This puts you in the crowd that says all of her reactions are reflexive and not actually in response to the stimuli around her. Perhaps you're right, but we'll never know until there is a meaningful and sustained attempt to treat her. You apparently don't know (or don't care) that she made some progress in the couple of years Mikey was litigating, but regressed after Mikey got his money, cut off all therapy, and began engaging in systematic neglect.

If you really feel that she's a vegetable after seeing the videos, heaven help any of your loved ones who become seriously disabled or brain-damaged if you have any input into their care.

And even if I agreed that she is PVS beyond repair (which I don't), based on the previous paragraph, MIKEY INTENTIONALLLY MADE HER THAT WAY. So does he get rewarded by getting free rein to kill her? I don't think so. Does the state prosecute him for the neglect he has perpetrated, keeping her around as Exhibit A? Not a bad idea. How about a compromise? He turns Terri over to her family to care or her. As much as I'd like to nail him, I'd let him walk if he'd just turn her loose. I'd even forgive him and not prosecute him for the myriad of crimes he has definitely and/or likely committed over the past 13 years.

And if the above is the best response you can come up with to my post, your position is weak indeed. Funny-ha ha ha.

[UCANSEE2]

If you noticed, I put the mention of heart attacks and bulimia as a question. Thank you for answering.

I have been following this from the beginning and trying to get all the facts.

I have some questions that are still not answered, but I am very informed of exactly what is going on and what has happened.

The fact that you insist on grouping all the people here on FR who have a genuine concern and have very good reasons to believe that Michael may be hiding something, as people who do not let facts get in their way, shows me you don't know the facts of this case, and don't care either. By separating people on FR into my crowd and your crowd, you do nothing but cause animosity and do nothing to clarify the facts of the case.

If you really believe you 'know' the facts, let's see them.

Show me proof that Terri was diagnosed by a doctor as having suffered a heart attack. Show me proof that Terri was diagosed for Potassium overbalance. Explain to 'my crowd' why Michael curtailed treatments for Terri a long time ago that would have given her a chance to rehabilitate. Or, are you saying that you know for a fact that Terri is braindead? Why would Michael refuse to allow her OWN PARENTS to take her from the hospice and take her home, to get better, or to die?

I am all ears.

[UCANSEE2]

But...I thought government was too big, and poked their nose in too much already......?

You raise a good question and it deserves a good answer.

The answer is that this government (the way it was designed by our founding fathers) is not welcome to snoop into just anyone's affairs.

This government is (supposed to be) a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

When the people get together, believing there is an unjust action going on, and petition the government to step in and halt a potential murder until all issues are settled, then the government is doing what it is supposed to do. Follow the will of the people that give it it's power.

Or, have you not read the Constitution?

[lakey]

Don't you mean "potassium imbalance," not over (which could kill her, pronto), but a depletion of potassium which would render her unconscious.

Did you watch Larry King tonight?

[MHGinTN]

"What's Geraldo's screen name?" ... I have no idea. I pinged him to the thread by sending him an e-mail at Fox with the URL in it.

[Lion in Winter]

You need to move on. Nobody cares what you write, clamup.

[UCANSEE2]

Funny how you rely on one court's decision that Mumia was a cop killer, but refuse to abide by another's that Terri is a vegetable.

Funny how you take the word of an adulterer, the word of a judge with monetary ties to the hospice, and a lawyer that professes to encourage terminating the life of those he finds wasting money he could use himself, over the words of her parents.

My, my, my, one wonders what life you must have led.

Just remember, if the group the judge, the lawyer, and the hospice board of directors is involved in establish legal precedents, don't break your leg.

[Lion in Winter]

Felos is in the league of satan.... he is fallen-away from the Greek Orthodox Christian Church. He doesn't want any CHRISTIAN symbols because he serves a DIFFERENT master. One with horns and a long tail!

[Lion in Winter]

mr. n. lurker,

ARE YOU CALLING THE TERRI SUPPORTERS LIARS OR ARE YOU QUESTIONING THEIR HONOR?

[UCANSEE2]

Thank You. Potassium imbalance. I am not a doctor, nor a chemical expert. (not much of a wordsmith, either)

No, I didn't watch Larry King.

I still have some unanswered questions about Terri's case. But the major factor I see is that before they kill her, what harm would it do to have an an impartial doctor make an examination to determine if she should be considered hopeless? Even so, she was not on life support. She was being fed. Many paralyzed people have to be fed. I guess we are supposed to go along with killing them too? I would like to see any medical report that proves she is braindead.

Wouldn't an EEG show this?

So far, Michaels doctors have said only that 'she has no consciousness'. Wonder if they used a dowsing rod to determine that or flipped a coin?

[MHGinTN]

From a few months after Tewrri collapsed to the day the money was won in the lawsuit, Michael showed an effort to find therapy for Terri. She actually was making some progress. As soon as the money arrived, Michael stopped 'wasting funds' to have rehabilitation therapy for Terri. In 1998 or 1999, Mr. Pearse, the state appointed GAL filed complaint with the Greer court that Michael was not providing therapy or even treatment for infections for Terri. Pearse also registered his testimony that Michael had too many conflicts of interest to be Terri's guardian, to be in charge of Terri's life and death decisions. In 2000, Michael was authorized by Greer to have hydration and food with held from Terri so that she would die. At that point, the only money from the awarded trust fund in the lawsuit, that was deposited for Terri's rehabilitation, spent was that authorized by Greer to be plundered in order to pay euthanasia atty, Felos. None of the $750,000 awarded for Terri's rehabilitation was ever spent on Terri, just Michael's efforts to have her put down.

[UCANSEE2]

that people can and do freeze in a crisis.

This is a fact. The information I have is that Michael called her brother. If he had the 'sense' to make a phone call, one would think he would have called 911 (or whatever emergency number they had back then).

Of course, we weren't there and we aren't him.

[Normally a Lurker]

Thank for the info. Also, I'm glad that you've gained additional perspective - as have I.

[TheAngryClam]

Which is why no higher court would review the ruling, right? Are all of them in on it too?

What's it like worrying about black helicopters all day?

[lakey]

Tonight, I think it was Felos who said she is not braindead. But she has no consciousness. The tapes we have viewed are small portions of a 4 1/2 hour tape!!

Watch a re-run if you can.

[MHGinTN]

Hypokalemia (low K+; low potassium; hyperkalemia is too high potassium) can cause a heart attack, but if such occurs there are enzymes that are released into the blood stream from the damaged heart muscle which indicate heart attack. No such enzymatic evidence exists to substantiate that Terri suffered a kalemic oriented heart attack. Also, the written description of the emergency squad that arrived to deal with Terri is very very different from what Michael Schiavo claimed were his actions (during the LK program). For instance, the EMT reprot states her position as face down on the floor, hands up toward her neck; MS claimed he cradled Terri in his arms until the EMT's arrived.

[UCANSEE2]

I know many are, for very good reason, emotionally involved in this.

To be fair, maybe Terri did suffer a collapse due to a weakened heart, poor cirulation, and suffered from lack of oxygen to the brain.

Michael appears to have actually taken care of her for quite a while, until he met another woman. At some point, one must consider that Michael has the right to 'move on with his life'.

Had he divorced Terri, turned over management of the lawsuit funds to her parents, and 'gone on', there would be no problem.

But, he didn't. He got involved with some people with some very bad plans, and they may have got him to believe he will be rewarded (monetary, favors, who knows).

The idea that he may have attempted strangulation is something that we may never know the truth of, and should have been investigated when the supposed proof first surfaced.

I still say give the woman and EEG and if she is not braindead, then CASE CLOSED, LET HER LIVE. Even if she is braindead, Michael could prove he was a man, a human being, a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever God fearing person and let her parents make that decision. It's not his money anyway.

[supercat]

Which is why no higher court would review the ruling, right? Are all of them in on it too?

Rules regarding trial court findings of fact:

1. In all findings of fact, the trial court is always right.
2. When the trial court is wrong, refer to rule #1.

Occasionally, an appeals court will reverse and remand a trial court for failing to consider the exact right set of evidence, but it's entirely up to the trial court judge to decide if he finds the different evidence relevant. If a trial court judge makes a decision which flies in the face of 99.44% of the evidence before him, but says he 'considered' all the evidence he should have, no appeals court will question his decision.

[MHGinTN]

Felos and MS claim that the baloon tape is part of a 4 1/2 hour tape fiel, but the examiner who made the baloon tape was with her only twenty minutes and his diagnosis is the one upon which Greer (without watching the tape) based his finding that terri was in PVS. There was much dissembling nad obfuscation, as well as mischracterization during the Felos/Schiavo interview with Larry.

[UCANSEE2]

Also, one thing I get from FR is experience. There are people that discuss and debate, and there are those that will never answer questions, and just like to tell everyone what idiots they are. Why won't you answer any questions?