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"Sometimes it does. One can dress well without dressing up."

Nope. Never. Dressing up is the whole point.

"What clothing would the "anything goes" hippies get pissed at? (Besides, obviously, a suit). :)"

Since it's so subjective, it's hard to express verbally--except for hair length, of course. Dress such as seen on "Laugh In" (or more recently, in the Austin Powers movies) would evoke scorn and contempt, as would things like regular oxford shirts, cowboy attire, and regular shoes (and don't even think about dress loafers).

Anything that looked like it was an attempt by "straight" society to copy "freak" attire was right out. Like software programs now, your attire had to have a certain "look and feel" to it, or you would be dismissed as a "wannabe" or a "narc." Your appearance had to express that you were walking the walk on a full-time basis.

This was a problem for police departments early on, because the officers they asked to infiltrate and identify drug dealers didn't have that subjective knowledge of the "look and feel."

"I totally disagree with you."

On what basis? I'm telling you the impression it creates, and you're telling me what? That it doesn't? Sorry, it does create that impression.

"I'd rather be comfortable then look good."

Uh, huh. That's the point. "I." I, I, I, I, I. You're telling people that their opinions don't matter very much to you, nor does whatever activity you're engaged in. You're telling them that when the chips are down, that "I" will trump.

"Now, it seems, the middle classes emulate the lower classes."

That's similar to something I've read recently in a couple of places. One was Barzun's "Dawn to Decadence," I think. In the ascendence of a civilization, people idealize and pursue the highest and best; it its decline, they idealize and pursue the lowest and worst. I think we're seeing that in America today, and the attitude toward appearance that you express is part and parcel of it.

But it's not just a question of "the middle class." There are people in every economic stratum who are trying to hold the gates against the barbarians, and others who are gleefully riding the roller coaster to Hell.

" Dressing up is the whole point." - Point of what?

"Sorry, it does create that impression."

For some people, like yourself, it does. My boss who is close to fifty loves my company's dress down policy and I never see him in a suit unless he absolutely has to wear one. My dad was born in 1939 and he hates wearing suits. My dad is as conservative as they come.

"You're telling people that their opinions don't matter very much to you, nor does whatever activity you're engaged in."

In most things, other people's opinions don't matter. IMO, life is too short to run around caring what other people think about me.

"But it's not just a question of "the middle class." There are people in every economic stratum who are trying to hold the gates against the barbarians, and others who are gleefully riding the roller coaster to Hell."

How did you go from hippie to doom-and-gloomer? I really don't see it that way. Good old days? In the good old days people weren't going to do business with you (real business; fortune 500 business) if you were Irish or Italian, much less Jewish or Black. I really don't share your pesssimistic appraisal of modern culture. Sure, somethings are a little screwy; and something are out-and-out wrong, (Abortion!) but I think society has made a lot of progress in the past 50 years. And I sure don't think the indtroduction of comfortable clothing is the equivalent of defunding the army.

BTW, would you like to see a return of 1910, where people wore three piece suits to ride bikes in the park?

"You're telling people that their opinions don't matter very much to you, nor does whatever activity you're engaged in. You're telling them that when the chips are down, that "I" will trump.

Not to pat myself on the back, but I'm the kind of person who'd risk his life to pull someone from a burning car and I give up my seat on the subway to old people and pregnant ladies (unlike many "men"). I suborn the "I" quite often and can certainly understand the need to suppress one's id from time-to-time.

But really, why should I care about what other people think of the clothes I wear? So they can feel better about me. Total strangers on the street can say to themselves, "What a nice young man, he's wearing a suit." So what. Only a certain percentage of people think the way you do anyway. Hell, half of liberals see a suit and they think, "suit". Not that I care what they think either. Clothes are so trivial, you shouldn't care either. If you were struggling with a bulky box through a building door, and some punky looking guy all in piercings and tattoos said, "Hey man, let me give you a hand." would you turn him down because he looks like a freak?

Some of the best people I know, dress like freaks. Not casual/comfortable like me, but weird. Some of the worst people, I mean bordering on evil people, wore suits every day. Clothes do NOT make the man.

Dressing up is the whole point.

Pointless waste of money to pander to the snotty dictates of people wrapped up in crass and useless symbolism.

You're telling people that their opinions don't matter very much to you, nor does whatever activity you're engaged in. You're telling them that when the chips are down, that "I" will trump.

Damn right. The opinion of smeone who makes snap judgments based on their class, religious, racial or economic prejudices is not an opinion that should count for much.