KABA asking for cash - AGAIN

Haas' Guide to Small Arms Ammunition ^ | 10/27/2003 | Mike Haas

[Mike Haas]

Haas' Guide to Small Arms Ammunition

KABA asking for cash - AGAIN
Risking the Second Amendment on raffles

KABA, the one-man website run out of a garage, is asking for your money again so they can play lawyer at the USSC level, placing your Second Amendment rights at great risk.

Can we tell it like it is? That KABA is a handful of ignorant militants who simply attack all that is NRA (send them money instead!) and has placed our Second Amendment rights in dire jepoardy if their awful case gets USSC cert?

Here is KABA's latest screed...

> Gun Rights Rifle Raffle:
> We Are Giving Away a Wilson Combat Tactical Rifle to a Lucky Donor
> Donate $20, Get a 1-in-500 Chance to Win
> Grassroots support is necessary to continue our fight to get a Supreme Court
> ruling on the nature, purpose, original intent and effect of the Second
> Amendment to the Bill of Rights. Your support is appreciated.
> *************************

"Grassroots support is necessary to continue our fight to get a Supreme Court ruling". I suspect grassroots is MORE necessary to keep these misfits from having to get a real job.

Most experts would recommend attorney skill and a good case at the USSC level, but clearly KABA doesn't think they are what they are are cracked up to be - it's GRASSROOTS that makes the difference with the USSC. They have illustrated THEIR lack of attorney skills with their briefs, and are trying to foist a turkey of a case on us.

Gee, maybe KABA will start a petition for the judges to rule in our favor. THAT'LL shake those judged up - get 'em shaking in their boots. After all, KABA is really good with petitions, right? Look how they made John Ashcroft bend to their will. (not)

How can ANYONE think this band of "anti-NRA/send-me-money-instead" gypsies are worth supporting or that their seriously flawed arguments will have merit?

Chuck Michel on Silveira v. Lockyer
Dave Kopel - The Silveira Threat
Don Kates - Silveira: Second Amendment Suicide
USENET tires of KABA tripe

Not to mention, KABA recently failed to understand Stephen Halbrook's strategy in a recent court case, and accused this respected scholar of "selling out"! Read Halbrooks response here...
Halbrook Responds to KABA critisism

And note: KABA thinks it is quite appropriate to threaten scholars and name-call gun-activists simply because they publicly disagree in forums such as this. Read the thread at...
An activists view of Silveira v. Lockyer
...and then ask yourself "How are they going to react the first time a USSC justice puts them on the spot with tough questions?" Maybe KABA will just call the USSC justice "pathetic", ignore the question and move on. That seems to be how they handle simple disagreement.

So - these are the Second Amendment champions that are saving us from the evils of gun control? Dysfunctional loose cannons that unilaterally insult everyone from RKBA's most respected legal minds to volunteers? How is that supposed to work?

Grassroots necessary at the USSC level indeed. If you believe it, shame on you. If they believe it, we're in bigger trouble than ever.

Mike Haas
NRA Benefactor Member
CA NRA volunteer
Author, Haas' Guide to Small Arms Ammunition
http://AmmoGuide.com/

---

Mike Haas is an NRA Benefactor Member and Senior Software Engineer by trade. Volunteer efforts include: creator and webmaster of NRAWinningTeam.com; webmaster, NRAMembersCouncils.com; past member of the NRA Nominating Committee; NRA-ILA Election Volunteer Coordinator (EVC) for CA 7th Congressional district; president of the NRA Members' Council of West Contra Costa County; administrator of the California NRA Members' Councils email list.

[Works_For_Scale]

KABA is a handful of ignorant militants who simply attack all that is NRA (send them money instead!)

Why should I send a single dollar to the NRA when their leader, Wayne LaPierre, says things like:

"We think it’s reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone."

"We think it’s reasonable to prevent all juveniles convicted of violent felonies from owning guns, for life."

"We think it’s reasonable to provide full funding for the National Instant Check System so it operates efficiently and instantly."

"We think it’s reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act."

"We think it’s reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government."

I'd just as soon send money to Sarah Brady than the NRA, neither of which is likely in this lifetime.

[Eastbound]

What is the NRA's position on the right to keep and bear unlicensed and unregistered tommy guns, either openly or concealed?

[steplock]

Is someone AFRAID of KABA? Maybe KABA can do what other cannot?

BTW, I haven't the slightest idea who KABA is, but ALL my warning signs are up with the methods being used in this article to denegrate KABA.

The FIRST AMENDMENT give everyone the right to speak!

[steplock]

Damn! MY "s" key apparently didn't want to work on the last letter!

[CHICAGOFARMER]

For those Free Republic readers who want to know the skinny about Mike Haas and his band of dishonest spinners here is Mr. Roy Lucas writing about the United States Supreme Court and the issue at hand.

Mr. Lucus has more credentials that 99.9999% of the opinions on this subject. Mr. Lucus has practiced and studied in front of the United States Supreme court for over 40 years.

Mr. Hass and his merry band of spinners will perhaps eat a whole bunch of crow, shortly. I think that Mr. Haas just wants to get his URL link out for more business.

Mike Haas
NRA Benefactor Member
CA NRA volunteer

Here is the real story about the Second Amendment case pending in front of the USSC known as Silveira vs Lockyer.


http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Silveira/kopel.asp

KOPEL CLUELESS:
Silveira Lawsuit Attacker is Shooting Blanks
by Roy Lucas
October 15, 2003

[CHICAGOFARMER]

For those Free Republic readers who want to know the skinny about Mike Haas and his band of dishonest spinners here is Mr. Roy Lucas writing about the United States Supreme Court and the issue at hand.

Mr. Lucus has more credentials that 99.9999% of the opinions on this subject. Mr. Lucus has practiced and studied in front of the United States Supreme court for over 40 years.

Mr. Hass and his merry band of spinners will perhaps eat a whole bunch of crow, shortly. I think that Mr. Haas just wants to get his URL link out for more business.

Mike Haas
NRA Benefactor Member
CA NRA volunteer

Here is the real story about the Second Amendment case pending in front of the USSC known as Silveira vs Lockyer.


http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Silveira/kopel.asp

KOPEL CLUELESS:
Silveira Lawsuit Attacker is Shooting Blanks
by Roy Lucas
October 15, 2003

[CHICAGOFARMER]

What is the NRA's position on the right to keep and bear unlicensed and unregistered tommy guns, either openly or concealed?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The NRA attorney said in front of a Washington DC judge it was OK to register firearms of subjects. Does 80 million firearms owners know that the NRA stands for registration?

[CHICAGOFARMER]

bump

[CHICAGOFARMER]

how do I put a thread to the bump list? This one.

[KeepAndBearArms]

NRA Shill Mike Haas offers more words of wisdom. Seems he prefers personal attacks on KeepAndBearArms.com to debating the issues. Since I am the Founder/Executive Director of KeepAndBearArms.com, I'm most suited to respond to this latest in a long string of smear campaigns. Let's see what we have here...

"KABA, the one-man website run out of a garage"

In truth, our server farm is in Florida -- we own our own server and our own mail server -- as are our bookkeeping services. Our CPA is in the Phoenix area. Our statutory agent is in Scottsdale. I run our web operations from Flagstaff, AZ.  Our Advisory Board is in AZ and CA. The hundreds of volunteers for Operation Self-Defense are literally all over the nation. And as a national gun rights organization, we have members in every state in the union and in a few other countries.

"is asking for your money again so they can play lawyer at the USSC level, placing your Second Amendment rights at great risk."

The case to which Mr. Haas refers is called Silveira v. Lockyer -- a true Second Amendment lawsuit now before the United States Supreme Court. If heard, it will be the first Second Amendment lawsuit argued and briefed on both sides in the history of this nation.

"Can we tell it like it is? That KABA is a handful of ignorant militants who simply attack all that is NRA (send them money instead!) and has placed our Second Amendment rights in dire jepoardy [sic] if their awful case gets USSC cert?"

This is a new one. Now we are "ignorant militants"? Because we stand firmly for "shall not be infringed" and don't support all of the many gun restrictions the National Rifle Association supports? Because we've put everything we have into winning a true Second Amendment lawsuit now that NRA has failed to do that even though they've had over 130 years to get the job done? OK. Makes perfect sense, to an NRA shill.

" "Grassroots support is necessary to continue our fight to get a Supreme Court ruling". I suspect grassroots is MORE necessary to keep these misfits from having to get a real job."

Ah, yes. The money smear. Just as boring as it was the first time it was waged. REALITY: We've shown exactly what we've raised and spent getting the Silveira lawsuit up to the Supreme Court, but we're really just trying to profit? Jeez. Go see for yourself:  http://KeepAndBearArms.com/Silveira/funds_status.asp

"They have illustrated THEIR lack of attorney skills with their briefs, and are trying to foist a turkey of a case on us."

That's funny. If the briefs we've funded in the Silveira suit are so unskillful, why not print links to them? Surely just an oversight. I'll do it for you. Here are the briefs we've helped fund:  Certiorari Petition | Reply to California.  The rest of the work we've funded is not yet published but is even more brilliant.

FYI, we're already strategizing which gun laws to go after once this case is heard and won in the U.S. Supreme Court. But NRA shills prefer attacking to helping. Go figure.

"How can ANYONE think this band of "anti-NRA/send-me-money-instead" gypsies are worth supporting or that their seriously flawed arguments will have merit?"

Which arguments are seriously flawed, Mr. Haas? Surely you can point to a few, since you're making such an assertion, right? All ears. Lay it on us.

Mr. Haas touts NRA/CRPA attorney Chuck Michel as some kind of bright light in gun rights litigation. Meanwhile, Chuck Michel tried to kill the Silveira 2A lawsuit with arguments even a first-year lawsuit wouldn't make. Go see for yourself: CRPA/NRA Lawyer Undermining ALL Our Rights.

He touts Dave Kopel's smear campaign against the Silveira suit as something that should be taken seriously. Here's our side's reply, in which Mr. Kopel's reputation as someone to be taken seriously in 2A litigation is forever scarred:

KOPEL CLUELESS:
Silveira Lawsuit Attacker is Shooting Blanks
by Roy Lucas

We formulated a response to Mr. Kates but decided to let him be. His silly, uninformed rant never got any traction, so why bother releasing the report that would only make him look as bad as Mr. Kopel now looks?

"Not to mention, KABA recently failed to understand Stephen Halbrook's strategy in a recent court case, and accused this respected scholar of "selling out"! Read Halbrooks [sic] response here..."

If Mr. Halbrook thinks it's smart to use the Second Amendment to register handguns, let him. We see what he did as an unnecessary concession to gun grabbers. And he demonstrated that he is not very well prepared to fight for 2A and strict scrutiny review of future 2A cases. But don't take my opinion for it. Read the transcript of Mr. Halbrook's oral arguments in court on October 8, 2003: http://KeepAndBearArms.com/Silveira/Halbrook.asp.

Maybe Mr. Halbrook is still sore that we exposed his meddling in the CATO lawsuit: CATO Attorneys to NRA: Butt Out!

"KABA thinks it is quite appropriate to threaten scholars and name-call gun-activists simply because they publicly disagree in forums such as this."

That's a joke. We never threatened any "scholars". We put so-called "scholars" on notice that their transparent attempts to undermine our work in defense of liberty would be exposed. And if calling the likes of Mike Hass "pathetic" means we're bad people, then let the record show that we still think he's pathetic -- a small man with weak arguments who can't tackle the issues so he engages in smear campaigns. An intellectual midget.

Angel Shamaya
Founder/Executive Director
KeepAndBearArms.com
Doing the job that NRA has failed to do, and obviously scaring their shills into personal attacks, again.

[Shooter 2.5]

I do know that we need every gun organization working together.

But let me say for the record that KABA isn't interested in working together. They were asked on more than a few occasions and they have refused.

KABA sucks.

[verity]

the one-man website run out of a garage

Is it a heated garage?

[Shooter 2.5]

What you wrote is a lie.

The NRA does not stand for registration. They don't support registration. They have fought and will fight registration.

[KeepAndBearArms]

Shooter 2.5 (inches?) says:

"But let me say for the record that KABA isn't interested in working together. They were asked on more than a few occasions and they have refused."

Prove it. Prove that we've been "asked on more than a few occasions" to "work together" and "have refused".

Absurd. Just another smear for which you have zero proof.

Angel Shamaya
KeepAndBearArms.com

[Eastbound]

Well, the reason I asked is because if any gun-rights organization were successful, it would have rolled back the 1934 gun control fiasco a long time ago and we wouldn't have all this worry today.

[Shooter 2.5]

I guess you don't remember a round of emails back and forth when someone was asking you to quit the thirty year old crap and start working together.

I guess you never were on thehighroad.com when you were asked to quit the thirty year old crap and start working together.


How about now? Right now? Are you willing to quit the thirty year old crap and start working together?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[KeepAndBearArms]

Shooter 2.5 says:

"The NRA does not stand for registration. They don't support registration."

Mr. Halbrook's own words, uttered of his own free will, in court, just a couple of weeks ago:

THE COURT:   THE GOVERNMENT CAN PUT RESTRICTIONS ON THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

MR. HALBROOK:   YOUR HONOR, WE ARE HERE WANTING TO REGISTER HANDGUNS. WE ARE NOT HERE WANTING UNRESTRICTED ACCESS. WE'RE NOT HERE ASKING TO CARRY THEM, OTHER THAN IN THE HOME.

THE COURT:   YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN IMPOSE REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS?

MR. HALBROOK:   YES, YOUR HONOR. YES, YOUR HONOR.

[See: http://KeepAndBearArms.com/Silveira/Halbrook.asp for the full transcript, with annotations.]

Read the full transcript and decide for yourself.

Using 2A to register handguns is not wise.

Angel Shamaya
KeepAndBearArms.com

[Shooter 2.5]

That was explain about a dozen times already.

The NRA does not believe in registation, works against registration and will continue to work against registration.

[KeepAndBearArms]

Shooter 2.5 says:

"I guess you don't remember a round of emails back and forth when someone was asking you to quit the thirty year old crap and start working together."

Oh. So you are one of the people who doesn't want NRA's longstanding history of supporting gun control to be known? You don't like the fact that history is allowed to speak for itself? In other words, you are a historical censor? Gotcha.

Pass.

Asking us to work with NRA when NRA shills attack us with lies on threads like this one is rather silly, Shooter 2.5. They fear the truth getting out, because it exposes them as enemies of the true Second Amendment. NRA Supported the National Firearms Act of 1934 and has supported many gun control laws since. People need to know that. Let them disavow their past transgressions and we'll talk. Until then, people need to know the truth.

IF you can manage to get the NRA to stop supporting ANY gun control, the longstanding pattern of their support for gun control won't be so important. But since they still support gun control of all shapes and sizes, their history of doing so is vital to people's full understanding of what the NRA really stands for.

"The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871."

—NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
NRA's American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22
(source)

"We think it's reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. ... We think it's reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That's why we support Project Exile -- the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws...we think it's reasonable because it works. ... We only support what works and our list is proud."

—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999
Hearing Before 106th Congress
House of Representatives
Committee On The Judiciary
Subcommittee On Crime
First Session
(source)

See a pattern there? Yeah. So do we. And as long as that pattern continues, we have something to say about it.

Angel Shamaya
KeepAndBearArms.com