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Crisis on our National Forests: Reducing the Threat of Catastrophic Wildfire [San Bernardino Fires]
The Congressional Record ^ | August 25, 2003 | DR. THOMAS M. BONNICKSEN

Posted on 10/26/2003 5:44:53 PM PST by Carry_Okie

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To: Carry_Okie; socal_parrot

Good stuff!


81 posted on 02/21/2005 1:17:21 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; forester
These may be historic storms, but you can bet that the flooding and landslides are far worse than they had to be.

It's really frustrating to me to watch people wail about floods and landslides after having killed the industries best qualified to manage watershed runoff.

82 posted on 02/21/2005 1:32:31 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie

We have evolved into an unthinking ,"I want instant whatever" society.....


83 posted on 02/21/2005 1:56:24 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Carry_Okie
I agree completely. Living in St. Helens, Oregon, i fear the summer this year. S. Ca has gotten all our rain this winter. The forrests are too dense, the deciduous trees are far too great in number, and it is gonna be a BAD fire season here. I live on a partly forrested wetland, and the creek is way down. Enviroterrorists rule the state. I hate to say it, but I think a lot of Oregon is gonna go up in flames this year.
84 posted on 02/21/2005 2:16:51 PM PST by Danae (In waking a Tiger, use a long stick - R. Heinlein)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; tubebender
We have evolved into an unthinking ,"I want instant whatever" society.....

Good point. Forests evolve over time. Problems that take years to build up cannot be undone overnite. Worse, the base of intelligent decision making is shrinking. Case in point:

I just returned from a tree removal project I am working on in Southern California. It is a popular campground on Highway 2 in the Angeles National Forest. Over the last two years, roughly a third of the trees in the campground have died due to bark beatles. At first, the USFS had fire crews cut down the dead trees as they died. Soon, there was logs everywhere...what to do?

In an effort to reduce the fuel load (which was really starting to build up) they then brought in a small wood chipper. They then cut off all the tree branches and fed them through the chipper. They started to cut some of the logs up for firwood...but the trees kept dying. So they had to keep falling the dead trees because they were a danger to the campers, which meant that they didn't have as much time to chip the flammable branches and tops. After a couple of years of this, they decided to pay a contractor to remove the logs...which now totaled approximately 225,000 board feet (enough to build around twenty houses).

At this point, three quarters of the logs have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer good for lumber. The ones that are still sound have blue stain fungus, which devalues the logs by 50%. The nearest sawmill is in Terra Bella, just south of Fresno, a five hour drive - one way. Thus, almost half the value of the logs is consumed by the expense of trucking them to the sawmill.

Regulations aside, any good forester would have dealt with the problem immediately and removed the infested trees. Because the logs would still be sound, the value of the logs would have paid for their removal. If administered in a cost effective manner, the timber sale would have benifitted the campground and returned money to the treasury. Instead, the public must now spend tax money to clean up the campground (ie pay someone to haul the logs away).

Why did this happen? In this case, the resource was wasted because it was treated as a sacred cow until the time came to remove it. Then suddenly, the value of the logs came into question. How much are the logs worth wondered the USFS? When the contractor was awarded the contract, some federal employees were convinced he would "make alot of money on the logs".

I have been hired to supervise the job and help the contractor remove the logs. At first it appeared we would have to landfill the timber that was deteriorated. Fortunately, we located a firewood outfit near Fresno that would take the logs and pay the trucking..so we get rid of them for free...not much money in that is there?

Now comes the interesting part. The trees that are left are weakened by drought. Why is that? Shouldn't trees in Southern California be drought tolerant? Even the most drought tolerant Ponderosa Pine will whither and die when a manzanita and live oak understory thicket sucks all the moisture out of the ground. Not an ordinary understory mind you...impenetrable. Too thick to walk through, to tall to walk over, and too choked with dead brush to crawl under. So what can be done to save the trees? Cutting the underbrush would reduce the moisture stress on the trees right? So that is what they did...on some of it. Actually, just a little part of it. A "beauty strip" 50' wide on both sides of the road, with a fuel break on the ridge line. What about the rest of the area?

Large trees in the campground have been declared "high value trees" and were sprayed with insecticide last month. The contractor used a 40' boom truck and wore white suits with gas masks. So Ernest is right, the USFS wants the trees to live right now, and are ignoring the cause (over grown vegetation). When I asked the fuels management officer whether they were planning to reduce the brush, he replied that funds were tight, and they were looking at other ways of treating the fuels besides hand clearing. Like what I asked? Well like mastication and burning he replied. I didn't follow up with the logical questions like: How do you expect to masticate a large area given the steep slopes here? or How will you burn off 90 years of fuel accumulation without burning up the trees you are trying to save? The mental image of a hooded migrant worker hoseing down a 150' tree with insecticide from the top of a boom truck flashed through my mind...

The public has entrusted the care of the National Forests to people who don't know what the hell they are doing.

85 posted on 02/21/2005 8:23:09 PM PST by forester (An economy that is overburdened by government eventually results in collapse)
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Because my last sentence sounds harsh. I should add that those in the agency that do know what to do are hamstrung by politically motivated regulations and stupid lawsuits by enviro groups.
86 posted on 02/21/2005 8:56:45 PM PST by forester (An economy that is overburdened by government eventually results in collapse)
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To: forester
Nice report. I'll bet the whole thing made you sick to your stomach. What I really want to know is: Did they learn ANYTHING?

Those guys in the bunny suits don't come cheap.

The worst of it is, while they're wailing about being underfunded, they've spent more money than necessary for a more destructive result.

87 posted on 02/21/2005 9:18:09 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie; Ernest_at_the_Beach
What I really want to know is: Did they learn ANYTHING?

They are currently right in the middle of the project, so the answer is not yet. I think that they are beginning to realize that timber only has value when there are sawmills willing to buy it. Filet mignon has no value in a town full of vegetarians. The lack of timber industry infrastructure is making it damn expensive to do much of anything.

The recent storms are blowing out roads throughout the burn (highway 39 for example). Funds set aside for fuel reduction will no doubt be diverted to road reconstruction...'cuz ya can't reduce the fuels if ya can't drive there. The follow up on the fires is going to be a very interesting story...I will try to keep you both updated.

88 posted on 02/21/2005 9:33:57 PM PST by forester (An economy that is overburdened by government eventually results in collapse)
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To: forester
The follow up on the fires is going to be a very interesting story...

It would be more interesting if we hadn't been here before. IIRC, there were major re-forestation efforts in those mountains in the '60s because of landslides and flooding after a prior fire.

89 posted on 02/21/2005 9:48:23 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie

bttt


90 posted on 10/30/2006 9:35:18 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

linkie

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1728582/posts


91 posted on 10/30/2006 9:54:51 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1498422/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1887826/posts


92 posted on 08/28/2007 11:32:25 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Carry_Okie
I am surprised you have not posted this to your links page.

It is very relevant right now in 2007.

Best regards,

93 posted on 10/28/2007 7:41:59 AM PDT by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Copernicus
The whole thread contains some very thoughtful contributions and discussion all the way to the end.

Glad you liked it. You're right, I should put together a links page.

94 posted on 10/28/2007 8:22:03 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: pissant
I suggest you review this entire thread because it contains a range of professional opinions you might find enlightening.

IMO, Hunter's people should read it.

95 posted on 10/28/2007 11:23:47 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: Carry_Okie
DR. THOMAS M. BONNICKSEN

PROFESSOR
DEPARTMENT OF FOREST SCIENCE
TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY


I'm modestly sure this is the forestry expert I heard in Los
Angeles on talk radio (one of the Salem stations, KKLA or KRLA)
a few years ago.

This was during the firestorms east of Los Angeles...
the same ones that the former "Mr. KABC" on KABC radio in Los
Angeles had been predicting for a few years due to the lack of
clearing out of dead trees.

When Prof. Bonnicksen was asked how he felt about how well the
guvmint had taken his warnings years earlier...
the good Professor gave one of the deepest sighs of frustration
mixed with exhaustion that I've heard in listening to talk radio
for about two decades.
96 posted on 10/28/2007 11:41:39 AM PDT by VOA
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self-ping to read later


97 posted on 11/02/2007 1:01:12 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Global warming is to Revelations as the theory of evolution is to Genesis.)
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