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Storm over Italy crucifix ruling [Muslim sues for removal from classroom]
BBC News ^ | 26 Oct 2003 | BBC News

Posted on 10/26/2003 7:10:49 AM PST by July 4th

A controversy has erupted in Italy over a court ruling ordering a state kindergarten to remove crucifixes from its classrooms.

A judge in the central town of L'Aquila upheld a complaint by an Italian Muslim leader, Adel Smith.

The ruling has re-opened a bitter debate about religious symbols.

A law dating back to the fascist period requiring crucifixes to be hung in classrooms has never been fully repealed.

The BBC's Frances Kennedy in Rome says the case is set to have far-reaching implications.

It centres on a nursery and primary school near L'Aquila, about 100 kilometres (60 miles) from Rome.

The president of a Muslim group, Adel Smith, initially suggested that a symbol from the Koran should be displayed alongside the crucifix in his children's classrooms.

When this was denied, he took his complaint to the courts.

Catholic fury

The judge ruled that the crucifixes showed "the unequivocal desire by the state, when it comes to public education, to place the Catholic religion at the centre of the universe", in disregard for other religions.

The school has 30 days to carry out the judge's order and remove the crucifix.

The argument has shocked the Roman Catholic Church.

"Such decisions will spread intolerance towards symbols of the Christian faith," Bishop Rino Fisichella told La Repubblica newspaper.

Another leading prelate, Cardinal Ersilio Tonini, said the ruling offended the majority of Italians and the spirit of the constitution.

"You cannot remove a symbol of the religious and cultural values of a people just because it can offend someone," he said.

However one teacher's union welcomed the move, saying it was a reinforcement of the secular character of the education system.

Church and state

Several Italian newspapers have compared the case to the controversy in France over moves to ban Islamic headscarves in schools.

The decision by the judge in L'Aquila could increase tensions between Catholics and atheists, and between Christians and Muslims, said La Repubblica on Sunday.

Italy has a rapidly growing Muslim population - mainly of recent immigrants - which is put at more than one million, according to the latest estimates.

The laws on crucifixes in schools dates back to the 1920s, when Catholicism was state the religion in Italy.

Although a revised accord between the Vatican and the Italian Government ended Catholicism's position as state religion in 1984, the crucifix law has never been repealed.

However, the presence of crucifixes in classrooms is left to individual head teachers.

Last month, Education Minister Letizia Moratti said the cross should remain in state schools and hospitals.

She also endorsed controversial funding for Catholic schools.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: activistcourts; antichristian; catholic; christianity; churchandstate; crucifix; islam; italy; muslims; religion; religousintolerance
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Islam at it again. Or maybe the Italian version of the ACLU egging them on.
1 posted on 10/26/2003 7:10:49 AM PST by July 4th
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To: July 4th
What grounds do they have to stand on? Does Italy have a constitution? Does it have any kind of provision for the separation of church and state? Or is this some kind of EU buggery?
2 posted on 10/26/2003 7:13:33 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: July 4th
I would suggest that Italy get rid of it's Muslims, for they are there to cause trouble forever.
3 posted on 10/26/2003 7:17:33 AM PST by tessalu
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To: mewzilla
Article 3 of the Italian Consitution reads as follows:

[Equality]
(1) All citizens have equal social status and are equal before the law, without regard to their sex, race, language, religion, political opinions, and personal or social conditions.

I'm guessing that when Catholicism was removed as state religion, the religion provision of the Constitution became fair game for the judges.

With regards to the EU, it doesn't look like they're in on this. It's an Italian judge.
4 posted on 10/26/2003 7:18:13 AM PST by July 4th
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To: July 4th
Well, the judge has to uphold the law. But it was the Muslim who brought the complaint. I'm wondering if he's really got his burnouse in a knot over this, or if it's part of a bigger agenda. Wonder if this'll make the italians want to amend their consititution.
5 posted on 10/26/2003 7:24:13 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: mewzilla
Oh it's part of a bigger agenda, you can bet your house on that!
6 posted on 10/26/2003 8:13:14 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: July 4th
bump
7 posted on 10/26/2003 8:16:22 AM PST by VOA
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To: July 4th
I hope the Catholic population of Italy is startled out of it's stupor by this. Maybe this will awaken the Catholic spirit of Italy that has been dormant lately. I see this as an attack on the very soul of the country.

Another leading prelate, Cardinal Ersilio Tonini, said the ruling offended the majority of Italians and the spirit of the constitution.
"You cannot remove a symbol of the religious and cultural values of a people just because it can offend someone," he said.

Oh yes you can, Eminence! Just look at what's happening in America! Wake your people up and counter this assault on Catholic Italy before it's too late!

8 posted on 10/26/2003 8:16:38 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: tessalu
AMEN!
9 posted on 10/26/2003 8:17:01 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: tessalu
And tear down that hideous mosque that casts it's shadow on St. Peter's.
10 posted on 10/26/2003 8:17:48 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: July 4th
Stick a small crescent up there too and tell them to shut the hell up. I know the crescent is not exactly the symbol for Islam as there is none, but it's close enough.
11 posted on 10/26/2003 8:27:54 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Yehuda
"Whoever kills another person, unless it be for murder or corruption in the earth, it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And whoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind." (Surat al-Ma'ida: 32)

Also, these Muslims are not obeying the Quran.

033.048: And incline not to the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Disregard their noxious talk, and put thy trust in Allah. Allah is sufficient as Trustee.

They are supposed to ignore stuff like this.

13 posted on 10/26/2003 8:42:34 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: mewzilla
Italy's constitution recognizes Roman Catholic Church as the state sponsored religion. European Union's constitution is under construction and should be finished by next year. All continental European countries look to the Justinian and Napoleonic codes.
14 posted on 10/26/2003 8:47:45 AM PST by sully777
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To: July 4th
, Adel Smith, initially suggested that a symbol from the Koran should be displayed alongside the crucifix

Wonder just what symbol it was?
15 posted on 10/26/2003 8:51:37 AM PST by tet68 (multiculturalism is an ideological academic fantasy maintained in obvious bad faith. M. Thompson)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Yehuda
the muslims stole the above verse (and much of the "better" parts of the koran" from the Jews and the Christians.

You'll find previous posts where I've said basically the same thing. It's pretty obvious.

No religion grows in a vaccuum. Christianity is Judaism plus lots of local religions. Islam is Christianity and Judaism plus a lot of primitive Arab cultural rules thrown in.

17 posted on 10/26/2003 9:04:03 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: mewzilla
What grounds do they have to stand on? Does Italy have a constitution? Does it have any kind of provision for the separation of church and state? Or is this some kind of EU buggery?

Exactly. And why don't these "human rights" groups go after the Saudis to force them to be more accepting of the practice of other religions.

19 posted on 10/26/2003 10:50:04 AM PST by weegee
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To: July 4th
...one teacher's union ...

Golly... I wonder WHICH one???

20 posted on 10/26/2003 11:35:40 AM PST by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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