Teen pulling prank killed by neighbor

The Palm Beach Post ^ | Sunday, October 26 | Sarah Eisenhauer and Cynthia Kopkowski

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

Of all the stupid cockamamie things to debate. No further comment.

[Let's Roll]

If the guy had been burgled before ...

Also what kind of burglar knocks or rings the bell? The kind who wants to be sure there's nobody home?

Many questions - was he shot in the back etc.

[general_re]

Only if the kid was shot in the back.

That's not the "only" situation where it would be at last manslaughter, as I'm sure you already know. If I just throw open the door and shoot the next person that rings my doorbell - as tempting as it is when the JW's come around ;) - the fact that I shot them in the face/chest is not going to help me when it comes time to discuss what I did in court. The response has to be proportional to the threat, and if it turns out that this guy was under no real threat at all, he's in big trouble - and that business of "I felt my life was in danger" won't save him if the circumstances were such that it was basically impossible for his life to be in danger from this kid. You have to have at least some rational reason to feel that way, even if it's a flimsy reason.

[general_re]

"at last" = "at least". Okay, time for more coffee.

[Ditter]

I am armed & I would NEVER pull the trigger on someone outside my house. Even if I catch them stealing something, even my car. They would have to be inside my house & refusing to leave before I'd shoot. This man should be in a world of trouble.

[dawn53]

A few months ago we were awakened in the middle of the night to somebody screaming and banging on our door.

My husband and I both got up, he went toward the door, I called 911. It was some guy, high on something, banging and yelling that we needed to let him in because he had been shot (which he hadn't). We have two large dogs which we could have turned out on him. We didn't. We just waited for the cops, they came and carted the guy away.

To go to a door just because the doorbell's been rung, and shoot somebody is nothing short of paranoia.

[Flyer]

He told deputies he saw someone he believed was holding a weapon.

I do residential deliveries (returning lost airline luggage) and sometimes work the overnight shift. After 10 p.m. I always call before I go to the door. It is not a safe thing to be at someone's door unannounced at 12:30 a.m.

[laredo44]

What do you want me to do in the mean time?

Refrain from answering the door.

[freep_toad]

"If they thought it was a burglar, what kind of burglar knocks?"

The kind that waits to see if anyone is home?

Just from what the article says, both the resident and the teenager were in the wrong. It's shows a complete void of common sense to run around knocking on doors and ringing doorbells at 12:30 a.m. (night...when most burglaries occur). On the other hand, for the resident to shoot someone who is outside their house makes the resident seem somewhat trigger-happy.

Plain and simply, we do not know all the facts, yet.
Do we know if the kid was actually holding something in his hand(s)? No.
Do we know if words were exchanged between the two? No
Had the resident's home been burglarized in the recent past? We do not know.

The evidence will come out. If the resident over-reacted to a "nothing" incident, he should be locked up for a long time. But if the teenager did something to instigate this, the man should be left alone.

"Teenage boys do things like that," she said.
Teenage boys are also known for things like drag-racing, date-rape, drug use, and bullying. Teenagers do a lot of things that exhibit a complete lack of common sense (hence their extremely high auto insurance rates). This should not be sloughed off as a "boys will be boys" thing. The teenager was running through the neighborhood ringing doorbells and knocking on doors. Why? To annoy and PO everyone in the neighborhood for his own entertainment. Rather stupid, in light of what happened, don't you think?

I gotta love the gun-fearing wussy sentence: "Levin has a concealed weapons permit, according to state records.". Ooooh... I didn't know you had to have a "concealed carry" permit in order to have a gun in your own house. But, then, I live in Texas.
If my doorbell rings at 12:30 a.m. and I'm sleeping, you bet your arse I'm taking my gun to the front door, too.

[elfman2]

Bargy Fife’s going to lose his bullet & spend some jail time if this is the whole story.

[Flyer]

If my doorbell rings at 12:30 a.m. and I'm sleeping, you bet your arse I'm taking my gun to the front door, too.

Yep. See my #27.

[BOBWADE]

If I answered the door at midnight and thought that I saw he was armed or rushing me,I would be in his shoes right now. Split second judgment is not always right but cops do it every day. Was he wrong? Yes. Criminal? I don't think so.

[fml]

--If my doorbell rings at 12:30 a.m. and I'm sleeping, you bet your arse I'm taking my gun to the front door, too.--


Me too. I've had an incident when the "bad guys" did knock on the doors. Scariest thing in my life, what the police later explained is that burgulars want no trouble and try to quietly slip in and out of your home. Offenders willing to do the worst don't always think ahead.

[CGTRWK]

Sad story. Kid didn't deserve shooting just for being stupid, but jaywalkers don't deserve being runover either - it just happens. Hope the shooter doesn't get charged.

[csvset]

I could say, "I wouldn't have shot", but then my situation is different. I have windows in my front door and a window to the side that I can look out of. I also have a passel of hounds that would have raised a ruckus at a late night knock. I also have three teenagers, and wouldn't be too alarmed to hear a late night knock. That's not to say that I don't answer the door late at unarmed..

I recall a case in California, where some "yutes" were driving around shooting out windows with slingshots.

They hit one guy's house taking out a window, possibly more than one, possibly more than one shot.

Anyways, the family was laying on the floor, thinking they were under attack. Southern California had had a spate of sniper shootings, primarily along the freeways.

Anyways, the homeowner grabs his gun and walks down the block and sees the car of "yutes". The homeowner approaches the car and engages the occupants in conversation. The homeowner said he saw a "yute" in the backseat, "make a move", and the homeowner shoot the youth, killing him.

The homeowner was acquitted. The trial was on Court TV.

The defense was rather savy. They had a mockup of the homeowner's window setup in the courtroom. Without warning, the defense atty, whipped out a slingshot and fired a projectile through the double paned window.

The subsequent noise made several jurors jump. Very effective technique on his part.

[BOBWADE]

I agree. That is why I don't think we should be slamming this guy. Shot in the back does makes this look bad but I cannot say what the homeowner thought he saw or what happened. Best to leave this one up to people with all of the facts.

[WorkingClassFilth]

"Apparently, the shooter had bad judgement."

Permit me...

Apparently, both the shooter and the deceased had bad judgement.

[Shooter 2.5]

About fifteen years ago, my family moved into a subdivision that has a large group of kids living there. My son became enemies with the brat that lived next door and the kids started harrassing my family.

One night they continued to ring the door bell and run away. It happened about five times in one evening.

After that, it started to escalate. The kids started leaving eggs in our mailbox, vandalized the dog house and finally they started on our cars.

We had friends over and all of the tires had the air let out, the antennas were bent and the windshield wipers were gone.

When the cops were called, I finally explained to the parents that if I ever see anyone on my property again, I will treat them as an adult burglar in the shadows and I can't be responsible for the safety of their children. I will be in fear of my life.

That stopped the calls and damage.

Would I have done that? No. But they didn't know that.

[longtermmemmory]

"How can they call that self-defense?" said a family member who asked not to be identified. "If they thought it was a burglar, what kind of burglar knocks?"


ANSWER: miami home invaders. This is the way the home invaders work. Get the owner to open the door then shoot them when the door opens. (it was part of the push for FL CCW history. It is also why home invasions in FL wend down 30% the first year of CCW.)

Their new M.O. is to get people when the come home and are in the driveway.

There is more to this story. Comming to the door armed is not odd. The 6 foot 2 "kid" must have done something to make the man not believe he was just a prankster and was a danger.

[G.Mason]

"What is so important that you are defending that you need a gun?" said Quiroga, the mother of two teenage boys, before breaking into tears.

Absolutely nothing, nada, ziltch, mother Quiroga.

I give up! Rape me, rob me, kidnap my kids and sell them into slavery.