[SpaceBar]

The above history class notes were found while perusing the internet for information regarding the Roman Empire and its' demise. Readers will note the striking similarity to the situation of the present day United States. In fact, the very last part of the article (not shown) urges readers to think of modern day examples for each point. I post this as intellectual fodder for freepers who like this sort of stuff. Enjoy.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

No state has the inherent right to survive through conscript troops and in the long run, no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their sons: "Come back with your shield, or on it." Later on, this custom declined. So did Rome.

THE NOTEBOOKS OF LAZARUS LONG

by Robert Anson Heinlein

[LiteKeeper]

When Nations Die deals with this subject in depth, compares several different ancient cultures, and draws parallels with the United States today. Excellent read if you can find a copy!

[Cicero]

Rome lasted for a very long time, but regretably, no ordinary institution lasts forever.

The United States has the longest-lasting continuous, legitimate government in the world today. It will last as long as her citizens continue to give more to their country than they take. But nothing lasts forever in this world.

[Prime Choice]

Don't forget long-term lead poisoning. Many a Roman suffered malaise as a consequence of the use of lead in food and beverage containers.

[donmeaker]

I would point out that the Roman Empire fell twice, once to the Latin 4th Crusade, Led in part by the Doge of Venice~ So much for the western Romans being overrun by Barbarians~ in the 12th century or so, and once to the Ottomans in 1453 when Turkish cannon knocked a hole in the walls and the Jannisaries (decendents of crusader captives, in an early attempt at eugenics.

Odoacer was a barbarian, but he was also an officer of the Roman Government. The Dioclitain semi-constitution, And "Augustus" in the East and West, and a "Caesar" in both east and west, is what changed. Odoacer quite politely sent the western imperial regalia back to Constantinopolos.

It should be noted that whereas Constantine flipflopped on One God and One Church, he was pretty hard over on One Empire.

The Western Roman empire was not centered on Rome, but rather on Ravenna, rather high up on the eastern side of the boot.

If you watch Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, his history gets its inspiration from the fall of constantinopolos, and the Uruk hai, who are half man, half orc, refers to the janissaries who were of european fathers and Arab mothers, who were raised as muslim fanatics.

In reality, the sea borne relief did not arrive, and the Rohirrim (aka the Bulgars) cut a deal with the Ottomans.

[Intolerant in NJ]

From what I recall in reading The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire years and years ago, the essential problem was that the society became too fractured, with special interest groups all working against each other to gain their own special advantage - like unions against corporations, academics against the military, leftwing churches against fundamentalists, gays against the boy scouts, etc etc etc.......

[TheCrusader]

The book "Barbarians At The Gates" tells the story very well. Rome eventually allowed many of the babarians to become citizens, and even to become members of their military. This was the real reason for the decline and fall of Rome. Sound familiar with our own nation? Open borders, lax immigration laws, rewarding illegal aliens with licenses. The barbarians are at our own gates now.

[FreedomCalls]

Don't forget the illegal immigration. From the Vandals, the Visigoths, the Ostagoths, the Alans, and so forth. The Visigoths in particular asked permission to cross over into Roman territory to escape other tribes pressing them from the east. Romans were OK with it because they only wanted jobs and land that Romans did not want. They ended up deposing the Roman Emperor and ending Roman rule a few decades later.

[Consort]

The Latin alphabet had only 23 letters; no "J" no "U" and no "W". They couldn't figure out how to spell Joint, or Underware or Wow.

[Centurion2000]

bump 4 later

[haroldeveryman]

“….. there was less gold to use in coins. “

Governments also resort to debasing their currency as a form of (hidden) taxation. If the government replaces another 10 percent of the gold in a coin with copper it can pocket that gold and use it as it pleases. Thus, there is more wealth available to the government and less of it out in the private economy.

[Finny]

An eerie read is Taylor Caldwell's "Pillar of Iron." It is the story of Marcus Tulius Cicero, and Caldwell aparently did considerable research to write it. In a foreword, she notes that similarities between the modern U.S. and the Rome of Cicero's time were not intended. It's an excellent book, recommended reading for anyone interested in learning tidbits about the fall of Rome.

[Timesink]

Readers will note the striking similarity to the situation of the present day United States.

I don't. Half of those things listed don't apply to the present day US at all (massive pandemics? rampant inflation? out of control unemployment? inferior technology? I don't think so), and the half that could even arguably be compared to our current situation (military spending, urban decay, political corruption and declining morals and values) are all generic "things sure aren't like they were in the Good Old Days" complaints that people have been bemoaning practically since the day the Declaration of Independence was signed.

[LadyDoc]

A few parallel notes.

Rome almost fell after Nero was assasinated. But it revived when Trajan took over. It got new blood from the farms of Italy when Rome became corrupt. Later, the good emporers came from outlying provinces, which again were less corrupt than the city of Rome.

Second, part of the problem was depopulation was from a plague brought back from fighting Persia. Also, Malaria was imported into Italy from North Africa, with a great increase in mortality of infants, and the weakening of the health of the adult.

Finally, there is a question about climate change and famine that was worldwide at the time of Rome's fall.

If we were to make Parallels, I would worry about Europe, which is depopulating except for a large hostile Muslim population that is unassimilated. And they are much closer to the Islamofascist center...and unwilling to fight back.

In the US, we assimilate our immigrants and they can become governor of California. We're closer to Trajan's firming up of the Roman empire than the fall of Rome...

[Dustbunny]

Nothing new about this post.

We started miming the Roman Empires decline in the early 60's and have steadily gained speed toward total wipeout.

We have the socialist/liberals/communist to thank for it all.

It took awhile but they finally succeeded in helping us produce enough rope to hang ourselves with.

[seowulf]

I think the following from the Annals of Tacitus give a pretty good explanation for the fall of the Roman empire as well as the danger we are in:

...Augustus won over the soldiers with gifts, the populace with cheap corn, and all men with the sweets of repose, and so grew greater by degrees, while he concentrated in himself the functions of the Senate, the magistrates, and the laws. He was wholly unopposed, for the boldest spirits had fallen in battle, or in the proscription, while the remaining nobles, the readier they were to be slaves, were raised the higher by wealth and promotion, so that, aggrandised by revolution, they preferred the safety of the present to the dangerous past. Nor did the provinces dislike that condition of affairs, for they distrusted the government of the Senate and the people, because of the rivalries between the leading men and the rapacity of the officials, while the protection of the laws was unavailing, as they were continually deranged by violence, intrigue, and finally by corruption.

[SunkenCiv]

Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

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