Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[FITZ]

Courts may... and some courts.

Right ---- but you can see how vague and questionable the diagnosis of someone else's awareness really is. At any rate, Terri is not terminal --- she requires no extraordinary care, her family observes something ---- wishful thinking --- or maybe not. It's very possible that if Terri has awareness she does not wish to respond in any way to Michael or to his girlfriend --- so they see her as a vegetable --- but to her family maybe she does choose to respond. You aren't there, I'm not there.

[The Iguana]

It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

I guess it's time to starve her to death.

[mylife]

Have there ever been any CAT Scans, EEG's or the like done that prove or disprove brain responce to stimuli? Surely after 13 yrs some one has looked into this.

[secretagent]

The cortex is the outer layer of the brain. Has anyone any inside info as to how much of it is gone in Terri? The medical records are sealed tighter than a drum and we only know what new-age spaced-out talk-to-other-souls Felos says.

Cranford has seen them, along with 5 other doctors at an evidentiary hearing. I don't know if Dr. Hammesfahr, the Schindler's witness, attended the hearing:

With his permission, here is an e-mailed summary of Terri Schiavo's condition from Ron Cranford, a neurologist who has personally examined her:

Terri Schiavo is in a classic permanent vegetative state. I have personally examined her and testified at a 6 day evidentiary hearing in Tampa in October, 2002, where six doctors testified on her neurologic condition, chances of recovery, and any possibility of her responding to treatment. The trial court judge concluded Terri was in a persistent (permanent) vegetative state, there was no possibility of recovery, and no chance of her responding to any treatment, including vasodilator therapy and hyperbaric oxygenation. Terri's most recent CT scans (extensively reviewed during the evidentiary hearing) show massive atrophy of the cerebral hemispheres, and the cerebellar hemispheres and brain stem, findings typical for a patient with severe and irreversible brain damage secondary to hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy after 13 years in this condition.

http://www.healthlawblog.blogspot.com/

I don't recall the Schindlers stating that their doctors souldn't access the CAT scans at the evidentiary hearing, or disputing the details of those scans.

[HiTech RedNeck]

If I needed it I wouldn't mind being drugged into lala land. But don't ever tell me to dry up....

[texaslil]

You are soooooo right. From what I've seen, she appears to be in no pain, but her poor parents are. If she's in no pain and not aware of any even if she is, what's the harm in giving her parents who love her the comfort of their precious daughter. The harm as I see it is the cost to medicare since MS has already blown all the money. This should make all old people tremble.

[secretagent]

See my #104.

[Cicero]

I read the article you pointed to, but it doesn't prove anything. The reporter argues that she must have had an eating disorder because her calcium level was low. She offers NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that she actually was anorexic or bulemic. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't, but this article is based on sheer speculation. It rambles on anecdotally without giving a single piece of evidence in support of her theory.

[FITZ]

Not real solid concrete evidence from that link:

Terri Schiavo apparently had an eating disorder. Even some of her family members have said they think so.

[mylife]

Thanks...I showed up while i was posting

[HiTech RedNeck]

Dr. Cranford? Dry-up Death Cranford?

[F.J. Mitchell]

I didn't know this was one of those stir up a mob and lynch Rush threads. I must have clicked on the wrong article.

[FITZ]

I read somewhere that this 5'3" woman had gotten down to 120 pounds ---- that doesn't really strike me as a starvation level.

[Calpernia]

Now someone help out a legal impaired mind here. Why is the article NOT subject to liability and damages to the Schindlers; but yet our activism is?

See: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1007384/posts?page=667#667

To: Calpernia

The post I was making gets to both liability and damages - people spreading wild statements on the internet as fact without checking them out or having firsthand knowlege, followed by phone calls, emails and faxes (many of which were based on or even contained portions of those wild tales) to the governor and legislators of Florida, who used that information to act in a manner contrary to the legal rights and interests of Michael Schiavo. That doesn't even mention the effect of the bad info bandied about regarding Felos, Greer, experts, conspiracies, UFOs and the Devil's Triangle.

667 posted on 10/24/2003 5:24 PM EDT by Chancellor Palpatine

[MarMema]

Dehydration and provision of fluids in palliative care. What is the evidence?

"OBJECTIVE: To provide a clinical review of issues surrounding reduced fluid intake in palliative care patients and a practical approach to care for these patients."

"CONCLUSION: Without sound evidence upon which to base clinical decisions, patients, families, and clinicians are left to balance potential benefits and burdens against the goals of care."

[FITZ]

I've heard that some doctors consider Terri to be in a "minimally conscious" state.

That's what it seems she is in from statements her family has made. I'm quite certain the parents who brought her into the world would have no interest in watching her suffer greatly --- there is no reason to believe she is suffering greatly except maybe when Michael tries to starve her to death. It's very possible if she is minimally conscious that she responds to certain people more than to others. There is no reason to think the family is making things up ----- they might be wishful thinking --- none of us would know for sure but why not allow them the benefit of the doubt?

[HiTech RedNeck]

Supposedly the good gummint guys went and looked up the information themselves.

[Two_Sheds]

Still no answer.

How about we ask it again:

"But if she has no cognition as alleged, how can she suffer?

[MarMema]

A review of the literature gives conflicting reports of the physical discomfort that may be attributed to dehydration in dying patients.

"In the absence of definitive research in this area, the balance of the burdens and benefits of such treatment remains subjective."

[Calpernia]

>>>"There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months.

This statement alone by Cranford is libel.