Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[Theodore R.]

There may be safeguards for cremation in your state or city, but there may be no such safeguards in Pinellas Co., FL.

[Theodore R.]

"I've wondered why he didn't just divorce her for a while. Maybe he really does love her and she really did say she wouldn't want to live like this. What a concept, huh?"


In this Age of Clinton, I would imagine that quite a few millions actually believe this "concept," as a poster called it!

[huck von finn]

Has not George W. Greer said that there will be NO autopsy? That would clarify much about this case if we knew.

Well the fact is that we don't know, and we should not assume that he did.

If Schiavo is not afraid of an autopsy, why does he insist on a cremation, which is contrary to her parents' wishes and THEIR church? Did Schiavo cremate his mother back in 1997?

Is it contrary to their church? I know it used to be, but I've heard of some Catholics choosing cremation recently. In any case, if you think that the body will not be autopsied because it is to be cremated, you are wrong. There's no connection; it's a non-sequitur. Cremation can happen fast, yes, but it doesn't necessarily follow that there would not be an autopsy.

[Theodore R.]

Still, the laws on cremation probably vary widely from state to state, and I would be unsurprised if FL is one of those states where a person can be cremated without an autopsy. It is my understand from reading the thousands of posts here since August that George W. Greer is not requiring an autopsy.

[luv2lurkhere]

Thanks for the explanation of feeding tubes, epow. I couldn't picture it in my mind until you described it. And MS and his group say that is artificially keeping Terri alive? Unbelievable.

[epow]

As for me, my right to die, is MY right and does not belong to the state, the church or the courts

You have no right to set the time you die, that's suicide. The church recognizes suicide as sin, and the state recognizes it as a crime.

God is the only one who has the right to decide when anyone dies. He has delegated that authority to legitimate governments in a few specified circumstances such as punishment for murder or in defense of another life or lives, but he has not given you or me authority to end our lives at our discretion. That principle was understood, if not always obeyed, in all Western/Christian cultures until recently when men decided their personal "rights" supercede God's authority.

[huck von finn]

Huck, I have no idea if the hospice has arrangements to have patients cremated without post-mortem examinations.

This is not up to the hospice. It's up to the next of kin and Florida law. Regardless of how the next of kin chooses to lay the body to rest, there are state laws that determine whether or not an autopsy takes place. With the interest in this case from all quarters, there is additional reason, it seems to me, to warrant an autopsy.

[CindyDawg]

Why? People here, in nursing homes and hospitals are sent to funeral homes when they die. Autopsies aren't routinely done. In nursing homes an RN pronounces.

[Theodore R.]

Good point, we do not therefore have the "right to die." That is the decision of the Almighty. Too bad, Americans cannot understand such a simple concept. They try to complicate everything with what "they want" and "what somebody else may want," etc.

[huck von finn]

Still, the laws on cremation probably vary widely from state to state, and I would be unsurprised if FL is one of those states where a person can be cremated without an autopsy.

The way in which the body is laid to rest has nothing to do with autopsy law. If the state of Florida has a law that says Terri's body must be autopsied, then it must, whether she's cremated or she's embalmed, laid out, and buried. It doesn't make any difference. Just because cremation is a faster process does not mean that the law wouldn't apply.

It is my understand from reading the thousands of posts here since August that George W. Greer is not requiring an autopsy.

Well, as I've said before...there's an awful lot of rumor going on around the net. And I seriously doubt that some judge is going to suddenly proclaim Florida law on this matter null and void. If you want an autopsy, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[huck von finn]

Why? People here, in nursing homes and hospitals are sent to funeral homes when they die. Autopsies aren't routinely done.

There are parameters. In certain cases, autopsies are done. Someone posted Florida law about this earlier, but there are so many threads on this topic that I cannot find it.

In nursing homes an RN pronounces.

...what?

[Dog Gone]

I posted the Florida law on this thread. Take a look at it, and then tell me whether or not you think an autopsy will be conducted.

If anything, the plans for a cremation practically guarantee one will be done, whenever Terri dies.

[Robert A Cook PE]

You are concluding things (her recovery) based on your desire (to see her die, based on the lies (dexsires) of her HINO), not on logic.

Logic, in fact, dictates exactly the opposite: That she has NEVER been treated, helped nor given encouragement to improve.

Given NOTHING but her own desire to live, despite the daily/hourly attempts to kill her and isolate her from ANY form of companionship, love, and affection, she has lived.

Thus far.

Given food, water, encouragement and therapy, she may (agreed, we do know for certain), she MAY live.

And in living, tell us what MS is trying to kill her for.

[Theodore R.]

Just because cremation is a faster process does not mean that the law wouldn't apply.

I hope that you are right, but I am afraid that we will find out in time if you are right. Ideally, we won't find out if an autopsy can be avoided here, for we pray that Terri can yet prevail.

Still, I would be unsurprised if the FL Supremes strike down the law next week, and we could see further feeding tube withdrawal by Thanksgiving. Maybe Jodi's mother can skip preparing the thanksgiving meal to supervise everything at the hospice again. What a macabre case, and it's all the fault of corruption in the FL judiciary!

[Theodore R.]

Could it be that Schiavo thought cremation would negate the possibility of an autopsy? And it may not. I hope we never find out for sure in this case. Still, when it comes to the FL judiciary, fight but expect the worst.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah, I'm trying to find it too. What?

Uh huh. In Texas (don't know about Florida) nurses pronounce residents that pass on.

[CindyDawg]

Sorry. Can't find it, but if you are saying it's required in Florida, I believe you. I think the whole autopsy issue smoke anyway. I'm no expert but I doubt that an autopsy would show much more than the bone scan. I think it is just about cremation. I'm Baptist but I was talking with a catholic friend and he told me that his church frowns upon this. Is this just a " see how you like this" for Terri's family? I hope not.

[Dog Gone]

Don't lecture me on logic. Your belief that Terri Schiavo could be rehabilitated to the point where she could implicate her husband for some crime is pure fantasy.

Severe brain damage is not reversible. You can trot in all the therapists you want to give her encouragement, it won't begin to fix what oxygen deprivation for about 10 minutes did to her brain.

My opinion is that her parents should be made guardians to care for her, and that her husband should step aside. But I don't think for a second that she has been lying on that bed for 12 years ready to speak if only someone would give her some encouragement.

[Dog Gone]

It was in post # 318.

[CindyDawg]

It' late but it is possible a basic communication system could be established. It depends on the cognitive ability.