Burden of Proof: The Killing of Terri Schiavo

Washington Dispatch ^ | October 24, 2003 | Judie Brown

[Republic]

.... The more the word on Terri gets out, the more Michael's side is not going to be able to get away with his antics. I tell everyone I know because there is power in numbers, as we all know. I'm glad those 3 doctors came forward on Friday, and I heard that there is also some guy who was involved in Sunny Von Bulow's case who said that he believes she was hurt by someone, after examing her medical records. I think his last name was Baden or something like that....

Yes-Dr Baden-he was on Greta's On the Record on Fox News both Thurs and Fri night last week.

On the first night he was seeming to support the mainstream media and Michael Schiavo, the second night, after actually RECEIVING some of Terri's medical records (bonescans) and more information on background of Michael and Terri...he POSED a BEATING as a probable cause of her injury. He was a different man.

For each of you who care about Terri and would like to add your voice to a poll that can be used by the Schindler family to counteract the AOL poll that was so hurtful, and of course taken by folks kept UNINFORMED by our socialist press corp, PLEASE go the the CNN website and VOTE for Terri...it stands at 45% in favor that her feeding tube was reinserted so that she could receive nourishment and 55% who believe this was the WRONG decision, that she should have been left to starve to death.

[hocndoc]

How's this for a comment:


Terri is no danger to anyone else and is technically self-supporting with the malpractice award. There is no justification for killing her when she can't give consent.

The act of removing the tube was an overt action designed to cause Terri's death. The feedings aren't necessarly high tech when the tube is in place. And, there was no need to go through the circus required to remove the tube: the husband could have just had the feeding stopped.

The State of Florida simply restored Terri to where she was the week before: able to be fed via a tube.

What's atrocious is the attitude evident in Michael Schiavo's actions. He refused to allow therapy when he has a medical malprctice award for that express purpose. He refused testing for swallowing therapy. He refused visits from the Schindlers and priests.

As to the "suffering" of Terri. Either she's a self-aware person who is suffering because of her dependent state (projection on your part) or she's brain damaged and unaware. Which is it?

[PeyersPatches]

Good points!!!!

[sisterjforteri]

Yes, was there and voted "yes" for Terri!

[TigersEye]

I think we owe him or her a debt of gratitude.

Quite true. Many wise men before you have said "take your enemy as your best friend" for just the reasons you have observed. Wisdom comes to the just not the pissed off.

Moral relativists, secular humanists and the many other minions of darkness and ignorance are the "Borg" among us. Anger and hatred are of no use against this machinelike mentality of conformist tyranny. Only the exposure of their anti-individual, anti-free will and anti-life illogic can short circuit their programming.

[TigersEye]

At 99, tigerseye call NL on the misery question in #93, but adds the term "know" -- and then at #103 NL takes advantage of this addition to deny his two previous assertions (at 63 & 93). Yes, we know he did assert that Terri is in misery, but no, he didn't assert that he "knows Terri is in misery."

Excellent work, my FRiend!

[Normally a Lurker]

Amazing - it appears that you get great enjoyment out of what many of us might call the mental m........ activity.

Would you care to discuss the central point/issue in this matter, or even some of the substantially important aspects of it . . . if not I'll just continue to enjoy reading your nitpicking posts.

[TigersEye]

Once we told him that his Dr. said that he would always be a vegetable. I will never forget his response. When asked what he thought about that he simply stuck up his middle finger and laughed.

Next to a rail, a bucket of tar and a bag of feathers that has to be the most appropriate response I could think of to these "kill her and let God sort it out" demons.

[TigersEye]

Try viewing the videos.

[TigersEye]

It's hardly nitpicking. Either you know she is in misery or you don't.

[drlevy88]

Were those her words .... distasteful vegetable?

Guess she thinks Terri is spinach.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

Would you care to discuss the central point/issue in this matter, or even some of the substantially important aspects of it

I most certainly would like to discuss the central issue with you.

First of all, why don't you tell me what you think is the core issue, straight up, without extraneous distractions.

[Normally a Lurker]

It's hardly nitpicking. Either you know she is in misery or you don't.

If you say so. But IMHO, whether I just think something may be true, know that it is true, or "know for sure" that it's true (to use some of your past phraseology) is not really important.

My knowledge level and associated degree of certainity about it, as well as that of any individual poster at this site is relatively unimportant to this matter in an overall context.

However, as I said to your friend above:

Would you care to discuss the central point/issue in this matter, or even some of the substantially important aspects of it.

But maybe such discussion might best be moved to the following article/thread

[Normally a Lurker]

First of all, why don't you tell me what you think is the core issue, straight up, without extraneous distractions.

As I said above, it might be best to move that discussion to the following article/thread where I have articulated that central issue in some detail.

However, let me warn you that I've been up all night and plan to take a nap/rest soon. (Will be back later ing the day/evening)

[Normally a Lurker]

Try viewing the videos.

Did so long ago. My comments on it have been posted on one or more other threads. I'll give you a link when I return later today.

[TigersEye]

Most people don't need a scientist or doctor to tell them what constitutes 'awareness' or 'response to stimuli'.

This video will pretty much tell the story for most. Your opinions of these videos won't change mine. I'll let others decide for themselves.

[TigersEye]

The following medical definitions don't require a degree to comprehend. They are simple and straightforward. Thanks to Bluebird Singing for posting them.

From Mosby's Medical, Nursing, and Allied Health Dictionary:

unconscious: unaware of the surrounding environment; insensible; incapable of responding to sensory stimuli

coma: a state of profound unconsciousness, characterized by the absence of spontaneous eye openings, response to painful stimuli, and vocalization. The person cannot be aroused.

vegetative state: a physical condition in which a previously comatose patient appears to be awake but is unable to communicate or respond to stimuli. The eyes may be open but because of senile brain disease, cerebral arteriosclerosis, or injury to the cerebral cortex the patient remains immobile and must be fed and toileted.

According to all three of these definitions, the person is unable to respond to stimuli. Terri Schiavo responds to stimuli.

187 posted on 10/25/2003 4:42 PM EDT by Bluebird Singing

The medical definitions go straight to the 'core issue' here, response to stimuli. Bluebird Singing observes the unavoidable conclusion that even a young child would acknowledge after viewing the videos; "Terri Schiavo responds to stimuli."

But more than simple physical response is evident. (even though that is enough to fit the medical criterion) Terri responds emotionally. Her irritation with the swab is not just a simple physical spasm or coughing or choking or salivating. Her face flushes, she turns away and seeks to avoid the swab, her eyes show anger, frustration and confusion. Those responses may seem automatic in one sense but they are responses to one thing only - emotions. Physical stimulation alone does not cause that range of response.

Automatic responses might contort the face but they would not cause the complex expressions of emotion she shows. Emotion is a mental event. It only exists with awareness.

[TigersEye]

This thread has much to say about Terri's state of awareness. The article is called "Doctors defend life for Schiavo".

[Normally a Lurker]

BS re "responding" to stimuli. Some inanimate objects respond to stimuli. Such as a vibrating object due to certain sounds/tones/etc,; a balloon to a pin prick; etc.

The phrase "meaningful response" and/or "indicating (in a repearable fashion) understanding" or the like should appear somewhere in these definitions. Otherwise, fools might apply feeding tubes to balloons, in the hope of seeing it recover.

[TigersEye]

I'll notify the AMA of your proposed revisions.