Former Chief Navy Counsel Alleges Cover-Up by LBJ of 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship

AP ^

[Poohbah]

Many people think that military forces in combat have perfect situational awareness and know instantly when something happens.

In short, too many people get their knowledge of military science from Hollyweird.

[SJackson]

Admiral Moorer wrote and published numerous articles on the truth of the Liberty incident at the time of the independent panel; this is not a late statement by him but by Ward Boston.

For what it's worth, it's not a "late statement", rather a filler by AP. Ward Boston has been saying this for about a year, since the Kristol book came out.

[yonif]

There is also the fact that not all the Liberty crewmen support this fight against Israel (regarding this incident). Some of them believe it was a mistake.

[squirt]

Amen Doc.

[pepsionice]

Once they start digging....this might go off in various directions with dozens of people coming up to assert cover-ups all over the place. Both Kennedy murders would likely fall into this category...as well as MLK. While it would be a breathe of fresh air to clear alot of these...I wonder just how far this would go and if the public would lose total trust in the government.

[Poohbah]

Pray tell, point out where I'm wrong.

Were the jets that dropped napalm (curious ordnance to attack a ship with) flying very low and slow to ensure that they knew the identity of their target?

Were the topside fires on the Liberty completely smokeless?

[US admirer]

Your comments lead me to ponder this question: If it could be demonstrated, incontrovertibly, that Israel knew it was an American ship and that the Israeli government and military knew they were killing US servicemen in the attack on the Liberty, would you be willing to condemn and repudiate Israel’s actions?

Moreover, given your knowledge of the working of the Israeli military and government, could you tell me if you know of any instance, where Israel has ever done something, anything, that is morally unjustifiable? I'm just trying to understand whom I'm listening to. Thanks.

[MEG33]

Luckily I have my tin foil hat ready for use.

[yonif]

Your comments lead me to ponder this question: If it could be demonstrated, incontrovertibly, that Israel knew it was an American ship and that the Israeli government and military knew they were killing US servicemen in the attack on the Liberty, would you be willing to condemn and repudiate Israel’s actions?

Yes.

Moreover, given your knowledge of the working of the Israeli military and government, could you tell me if you know of any instance, where Israel has ever done something, anything, that is morally unjustifiable? I'm just trying to understand whom I'm listening to. Thanks.

Of course. The fact the Israeli government refuses to defy the US and the world, and go out and kill the terrorist leader Arafat who has been responsible for hundreds of Israeli murders, is morally unjustifiable from the side of the Israeli government because of the millions of Israeli civilians who have to continue to live in fear of more terror coming from Arafat.

[US admirer]

Your reply is appreciated.

[yonif]

If Israel could stand on it's own, and didn't rely on the annual $6 billion in "aid" from the U.S. they could defy anybody and do exactly whatever they wanted.

Israel was not receiving any aid from the US during 1967. Aid started after 1973. The aid every year is around $3 billion. Mostly in the form of loans. What does this, if I may ask, have to do with this thread?

[quietolong]

I served 10 years in the VP community. (P-3 patrol aircraft) I know what ships look like from the air and How they are identified. Also being a private pilot. I know how pilots fly. And being raised in the Wisconsin deer woods. I know about “ Buck Fever

First even at 8 miles/min. more than enough time to get a good look. But the identifying aircraft were not doing that speed. More like 150-200 Kt.

And what flag the ship flies is the last thing you look at when “rigging a ship”

FOI P-3s when on station fly at 200 ft. 200 Kts

You look at the ship construction and configuration. And then see if that matches the name and flag that should go to it.

So even if it hadn’t been identified by a flying boxcar earlier. And the first attacking aircraft didn’t get a good look before it started it’s run. The following flights have plenty of time to get a good look. Plus there going to be doing battle assessment. To see were weapons hit ( Good shooting you hit right by that big dish antenna)

One thing is for sure! The attack was no accident!
You know How you can tell a unmarked Police car from a mile away. When your driving down the road. Sort of the same thing. And you don’t have “Arab Fever” for 30, 20, 15 or even 10 Min.

[yonif]

What do you think of this?
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/Misidentification.pdf

[yonif]

Reread my reply. As I already said, Israel was receiving almost no aid in 1967. Aid, in the form of loans, began in 1973.

Here is the take on aid:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

Again, let me ask, tell me how this relates to whether or not Israel attacked the Liberty on purpose, as you say?

[Poohbah]

First even at 8 miles/min. more than enough time to get a good look. But the identifying aircraft were not doing that speed. More like 150-200 Kt.

The Mystere drivers were going much faster than that.

And what flag the ship flies is the last thing you look at when “rigging a ship”

The US Navy maritime patrol community is better-trained at this thing than Israeli fast-movers are.

FOI P-3s when on station fly at 200 ft. 200 Kts

Mysteres scrambled on a panic call fly 500 knots and 1,000 feet.

You look at the ship construction and configuration. And then see if that matches the name and flag that should go to it.

Sure.

Do that in a single-seat fast-mover under wartime conditions. Do it reliably, while knowing that getting too low and slow next to a hostile ship is a great way to get shot down.

So even if it hadn’t been identified by a flying boxcar earlier.

And you're going to tell me that there's never been a breakdown in communications between a maritime patrol outfit, the Israeli Army, and a bunch of fast-movers?

And the first attacking aircraft didn’t get a good look before it started it’s run. The following flights have plenty of time to get a good look.

After the damn ship's on fire?

One thing is for sure! The attack was no accident!

OK. Please tell that to the crew of the USCGC Point Welcome (attacked by the USAF off Vietnam, 1966) and the crew of the USS Nautilus (attacked by US Army Air Force bombers during the Battle of Midway, 1942).

[Thorin]

You are exactly right about the shamefulness of this. Congress was too cowardly to even investigate this attack on an American ship.

The only ones who believe this attack was an "accident" are idiots who believe whatever the government says or shills of Israel.