FINAL SCORE: New York Yankees 3 Florida Marlins 4 (World Series Game 4 LIVE THREAD)

Fox Sports | 10-22-2003 | me

[NYCVirago]

Can you believe the way we lost this?? Black Holes Boone, Giambi, Soriano...and of course WEAVER....

And Clemens gets a hit? How sad is that -- the pitcher gets a hit, and Soriano still can't get on base!

[F16Fighter]

Yes, the plan has worked before; The problem is the Yanks p*ssing away opportunities they can't afford to blow against a Marlin team that somehow beat the Giants AND Cubs when things looked bleak.

And what happens if Wells and Pettitte inexplicably have bad games? That renders Mariano a potential non-factor, doesn't it?

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

For what it's worth, lots of Yankee fans at MLB.com's message board think Mo should have come in. I don't normally fault Joe, whose moves have paid off most of the time, but pitching Jeff Weaver, a head case if ever there was one, in a tie game on the road in the World Series, in a sudden-death inning (9th or later) is essentially throwing the game. The Yankees had Heredia and White still available, plus Mo. Joe seems to have a soft spot for Jeff, and seemed to want to find a way to get him into a World Series game, maybe to boost his confidence. After Weaver's 1-2-3 inning, Joe should have counted his blessings, and put in at LEAST Heredia or White, guys used to pitching in relief.

Still, it wasn't game 7, and the Yankees now have home-field advantage in a best of three series, with Wells, Pettitte, and Mussina scheduled. Gotta like those odds. I'd bet Mo would go four innings in a World Series game 7 if it came down to it.

[F16Fighter]

"And Clemens gets a hit? How sad is that -- the pitcher gets a hit, and Soriano still can't get on base!"

Incredible, eh??

[F16Fighter]

From a Yankee stand-point, losing a game by one run packed with multi-millionaire hitters is quite frustrating.

For Fans, it's great being 2-2.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

That renders Mariano a potential non-factor, doesn't it?

I have a strong suspicion that Mo comes in for tie games in the 8th inning or later, the rest of the series. You can't leave your best arrow in the quiver. With a maximum of three games left in the season, there's nothing to 'save' Mariano for. Preserving a tie in late innings on the road (when one run wins it for the other team) is as much of, if not more of, a save than coming in with a lead. In the postseason, even more so.

[Catspaw]

"The hook is in the mouth"--he said.

It looks like the Yankees forgot to set the hook.

[jwalsh07]

Yup.

Deke(Matsui) is a helluva ballpalyer. They must have some good coached over there in the Land of the Rising Sun.

[jwalsh07]

Soriano has been simply stinko. He makes Reggie look like a contact hitter in the post season.

[F16Fighter]

"Joe seems to have a soft spot for Jeff, and seemed to want to find a way to get him into a World Series game, maybe to boost his confidence."

And THIS is a big problem. Torre's is sacrificing the team in leiu of treating Weaver's mental/physical disease on the field.

There is NO %*#@! way Torre should have brought Jeff Weaver -- of ALL people -- into a tie game in the World Series. The MLB.com board consensus is right. Bring Mo in, but anybody but Weaver!

[F16Fighter]

Matsui is a professional in every sense of the word.

Soriano hitting .290 with 38 HRs in the regular season defies nature.

[F16Fighter]

What do you think of inserting Sierra into right field? Can he handle it? We need help!

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

What do you think of inserting Sierra into right field? Can he handle it? We need help!

Not sure of his fielding abilities. He seems to hit better off the bench (though my memory could be selective on this). I think Joe needs to put Jeter at leadoff, followed by someone capable of at least moving him over, probably Nick Johnson (bench Giambi for game 5). Then Bernie, who is hitting very well, and for power, this postseason. After that, maybe Soriano, for lack of a better place to stick him, Matsui, Posada, Garcia/Sierra, Boone, and pitcher. At least Sori will be isolated from the other weak hitters. I dread seeing Boone-pitcher-Soriano innings. Talk about easy innings... With a pitcher, you may as well put your weakest hitter in front of him, since the pitcher isn't likely to get a hit behind him.

I really have no idea why Soriano continues to bat leadoff. Jeter is pretty good on the bases, and he makes contact way more than Soriano, and certainly has a higher batting average. In a pitcher's park like Pro Player, it seems to me you want to bunch your contact hitters together to put together rallies. You can't bank on the 3-run home run there. Especially with the deep right field porch, and Mr. Pull Hitter Giambi as your power hitter.

Sometimes I wonder if Joe ought to just feed the lineup through a randomizer, just to shake things up.

[NYCVirago]

What do you think of inserting Sierra into right field? Can he handle it? We need help!

I am a Sierra fan -- he's been able to get some clutch hits this postseason. He should definitely be used more.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

Soriano must be close to a record-low on-base percentage for someone who has that high a batting average. Ichiro Suzuki doesn't walk a lot either, but he has a higher batting average, at least, and he doesn't strike out nearly as much as Sori, so he can move runners along at the very least.

[Reagan Man]

>>>There is NO %*#@! way Torre should have brought Jeff Weaver -- of ALL people -- into a tie game in the World Series.

When I saw Weaver come in the game, I knew he'd be giving up THE game winning homerun. No doubt about it. Bad move by Torre.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

I believe in Weaver's last relief appearance, it was against the White Sox. What did he do? He gave up a walkoff home run in extra innings! It takes some kind of talent to do that twice in a season, much less twice in consecutive relief appearances. He should pitch the home run derby during next year's All-Star break. He could get quite a side business going taking bids from the guys in that contest.

[Burkeman1]

How did this happen? Nevermind! Shake it out! The Yanks will pull it out in Six!

[Jacinta]

Didn't all of us know the Yankees weren't going to win this game once Weaver came in?

Quite true. You yankee fans are a rip. I loved the comment by F16Fighter (I think), who was going to check outside to see if pigs were flying after Weaver pitched a 1-2-3 inning. ROFL! My son is a big yankee fan, and as soon as Torre brought Weaver in, he said "Weaver?! Goodnight," and he went up to bed!! An incredible game, sure beats Cubs / Red Sox.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

They're calling him Byung-Hyun Weaver on the Usenet group alt.sports.baseball.ny-yankees.

I had an epiphany earlier today. Giambi, Soriano, and Boone are not clutch players because they are automatic outs, and as we know, there is no clutch in an automatic.