Contrary to AP, Terri Schiavo is not comatose or vegatative

The Associated Press ^ | 10/18/2003 | MITCH STACY

[walford]

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Two state courts have denied last-ditch efforts by the parents of a disabled woman to reinsert a feeding tube was keeping her alive, in a legalbattle that pitched the parents against the woman's husband.

AP Photo

AP Photo Slideshow: Fla. Woman's Feeding Tube Removed

The husband, Michael Schiavo, successfully fought to have the feeding tube removed this week, but her family vowed to fight to have it reinserted. Doctors say Terri Schiavo will die within two weeks.

The last-minute legal tactic would have directed Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene in the case, supporters of Schiavo's parents said.

A Tallahassee judge rejected the request, saying it should have been filed in Pinellas County where the case originated. The 1st District Court of Appeal in Tallahassee then denied the request without comment.

Through several years of legal battles, Bob and Mary Schindler have maintained hope that their daughter, who has been in a vegetative state since her heart stopped in 1990, might one day be able to talk.

Schiavo's husband, Michael, said his wife would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially. He won the fight, and the tube was disconnected Wednesday.

"I hope and I pray that (people) never have to go through watching their son or daughter die a horrific, cruel death — slowly, minute by minute," Mary Schindler said.

Bush has been sympathetic to the Schindlers' efforts, but said he has found no legal means to override the courts.

The Schindlers wanted the court to compel Bush to order an investigation into their allegations that Michael Schiavo has abused Terri Schiavo. They say they want the tube reinserted so law enforcement can investigate.

Michael Schiavo has adamantly denied mistreating his wife, and state police and prosecutors have declined to investigate the claims.

Pat Anderson, the Schindlers' attorney, said she was not surprised by the judge's swift denial. The legal battle between the Schindlers and their son-in-law has passed through the hands of 19 separate judges and now six different courts.

"There has been an awful lot of judicial attention to this case," Anderson said. "Judges don't like to second-guess each other."

George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, said it was preposterous to think that any judge or court would issue an order requiring the governor to intervene. "Apparently the judges (in Tallahassee) felt the same," he said.

[Drango]

Make sure you put it in writing. Our state has a living will statute, and after it's signed and witnessed, it's got to be filed with your doctor(s) AND with the hospitals before it's honored.

Such a burden is offensive. My life and death belong to me. Not to the state, not to the church and not to the courts.

Dying with dignity means that if I clearly communicate my wishes to others, MY wishes should be followed. I accept the role of the courts to judge if I have clearly communicated my wishes. I DO NOT accept the role of the legislature in making me jump through hoops in order to have my wishes carried out.

[Catspaw]

Dying with dignity means that if I clearly communicate my wishes to others, MY wishes should be followed. I accept the role of the courts to judge if I have clearly communicated my wishes. I DO NOT accept the role of the legislature in making me jump through hoops in order to have my wishes carried out.

Isn't that the crux of the situation with Terri Schiavo? Once she was unable to make her own decisions and her husband and her parents disagreed as to what she wanted, the courts stepped in.

[supercat]

Maybe so but the whole system of appeals is supposed to overturn judges who are egregiously off-base.

Unfortunately, appeals courts are generally not allowed to question judicial findings of fact. If a judge makes a declaration of fact and says he examined all the evidence, then even if 99.44% of the evidence contradicts the judge's finding, it shall nonetheless be beyond question.

Although there are reasons why judge's findings should not be routinely questioned, the appeals court system provides no protection against judges whose findings are just plain wrong. Worse, laws which are supposed to prevent people from "judge shopping" instead mean that someone who gets hoodwinked into accepting a bad judge will be unable to escape his power.

[supercat]

I DO NOT accept the role of the legislature in making me jump through hoops in order to have my wishes carried out.

If there weren't a well-defined procedure for making your wishes unambiguously clear, how could you be sure they'd be carried out?

The procedures are there to ensure that a "person's wishes" are in fact the person's wishes, and not merely the wishes of an adulterous murderous HINO.

[1L]

Such audit would land Felos, Schiavo, and possibly Greer in prison.

Do you have any evidence of this, or is it pure conjecture?

[Drango]

Once she was unable to make her own decisions and her husband and her parents disagreed as to what she wanted, the courts stepped in.

I really don't want to get into this case because the passion is rather high, to say the least. BUT, didn't the court find that Terri communicated her wishes to her husband and 2 other people? (Sorry I'm not up to debating the issue, or if the individuals had a motive or bias.)

I rather talk about my own situation, and the legitimate (or illegitimate) right of courts and the legislature in MY right to death with dignity.

[Cicero]

If I am unable to care for myself or be cognizant of those around me I do NOT wish to be saved for someone else's crusade.

If you choose to be euthanized or commit suicide, it would be MUCH better if you did it quietly. There are too many liberals out there who want to make a political issue of this, and too great a risk that people who DO NOT want to be murdered or commit suicide will be sucked down the tubes with those who do.

Same thing with the Hemlock Society. If they want to kill themselves quietly, nobody can stop them. But if they want to change the medical profession into killers who cannot be trusted by their patients, that must be resisted.

[NautiNurse]

Don't you just wonder how Schiavo's libido and devotion to his mistress will improve once Terri is out of his hair--finally?

Just imagine how Schiavo's mistress and the mother of his two children should feel comfort snd pleasure that Schiavo has been so devoted to carrying out his deathwish for his first wife.

When his illigitimate children are old enough to discern--try to fathom their fear should they become ill with a fever, injury, or require hospitalization.

[supercat]

Do you have any evidence of this, or is it pure conjecture?

I am not a lawyer, but from my understanding a judge is required to appoint a guardian ad litem any time there is a potential conflict between a guardian's own interests and those of his ward. Decisions may only be allowed without a guardian ad litem if there is no plausible conflict of interest involved.

I don't know exactly what the statutes requiring a guardian ad litem say about what happens if a judge fails to appoint one when legally required, but I believe it would open up to question any decisions made by the judge when a guardian ad litem should have been present but was not. Had Judge Greer found a guardian ad litem who would rubberstamp anything Schiavo wanted, his approval of Schiavo's disbursement of over $300K to Felos would have been beyond question. But since he didn't do that, I believe any findings of fact made in relation to the trust fund would be open to investigation in an independent audit.

To be sure, I don't know whether an indendent audit would actually manage to land the Schiavo Triumvirate in jail. I suspect strongly, however, that they don't want anyone else looking over their books.

[supercat]

BUT, didn't the court find that Terri communicated her wishes to her husband and 2 other people? (Sorry I'm not up to debating the issue, or if the individuals had a motive or bias.)

Judge Greer has declared, based on the statements of Schiavo and two siblings of his, that Terri said she did not want to live as a vegetable. Such statements are contradicted by her family, who also note that she feared Schiavo would try to kill her. They are also contradicted by Schiavo's own statements at the trial where he received over $1M in insurance payouts.

To claim in an malpractice suit that one is going to learn nursing skills to take care of one's wife, and immediately upon receiving the money declare they she said she'd have wanted to die in such a situation seems rather suspicious, does it not?

Further, even if Terri had indicated that she'd want to die if in a permanent vegetative state, there are supposed to be certain protocols to determine whether someone is, in fact, in such a state. If therapies are attempted and prove ineffective, then someones wishes to die if in a permanent vegetative state might come into play. In the extant case, however, Judge Greer is accepting the word of a hired "expert witness" who says he believes Terri is in a permanent vegetative state even though he's not done the protocols necessary to prove it; further, he ignores affidavits from other doctors who state that Terri's behavior is grossly inconcistent with her being in a permanent vegetative state.

[FlyVet]

Contrary to not only the AP, but every single TV or radio network news source I've heard. Same mantra, over and over. My contempt for them all continues to grow. They are either too lazy and stupid to check into it, or they are all part of the death agenda. Which is it, or is it both?

[Catspaw]

I really don't want to get into this case because the passion is rather high, to say the least. BUT, didn't the court find that Terri communicated her wishes to her husband and 2 other people? (Sorry I'm not up to debating the issue, or if the individuals had a motive or bias.)

That is the dispute--her husband said she did, her parents say she didn't.

Just make sure you've communicated your wishes well and that your family will honor your wishes.

[trussell]

That is your decision and should be respected and honored by all around you. However, Terri did not have any documentation that gave that as her wishes. Her husband didn't mention that this was her wishes until after he had won a monetary judgement that awarded $700,000 for rehabilitation. The amount awarded specifically for rehab has been used for his fight to have her be "allowed to die". Why was this "DNR" request not mentioned in that trial? Let me take a guess... After he won the judgement, he realized that he could have all that money to himself if his wife was dead. Not to mention, if she were dead, she could not tell anyone what happened to her the night she collapsed. This is just my opinion as should not be quoted as fact!! Even though this is just my opinion, if is conceivable that this is exactly what has happened, and is happening. Please put your wishes in writing. Consider putting together a Durable Power of Attorney, giving the voice of your wishes to someone who you can trust (remembering that blood is thicker than water).

[OldFriend]

All agree that there is NO money left for anyone to receive upon Terry's death.

I would hope my husband would honor my wishes and that strangers would not decide they know better than I.

[RGSpincich]

3. If there is no money or other benefit coming to Terri's husband at her death, why on earth should he mind if her folks took over her care?

Maybe he's telling the truth about her wishes.

[Drango]

I would hope my husband would honor my wishes and that strangers would not decide they know better than I.

I'll say it strong than that. A POX on those who would abuse my wife for attempting to carry out MY wish. A POX on those who would make MY suffering a circus. A POX on those who would use MY failings to fill out the proper forms as a reason to put me into hell on earth.

[EllaMinnow]

I found this timeline that was published in June of this year.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/breaking_news/6029904.htm

Timeline of the Terri Schiavo case
Associated Press

The timeline in the case of Terri Schiavo, who is caught in a legal battle between her husband and parents over whether to remove her feeding tube.

_ Feb. 25, 1990: Terri Schiavo collapses in her home. Doctors believe a potassium imbalance caused her heart to stop, temporarily cutting off oxygen to her brain.

_ Nov. 1992: Terri's husband, Michael, wins malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing his wife; jury awards more than more than $700,000 for her care, Michael receives an additional $300,000.

_ Feb. 14, 1993: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have a falling out with Michael over the malpractice suit money and Terri's care.

_ July 29, 1993: Bob and Mary Schindler file petition to have Michael Schiavo removed as Terri's guardian. The case is later dismissed.

_ May 1998: Michael Schiavo files petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.

_ Feb. 11, 2000: Circuit Judge George W. Greer rules feeding tube can be removed.

_ Jan. 24, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's decision.

_ March 29, 2001: Greer rules feeding tube to be removed April 20.

_ April 18, 2001: Florida Supreme Court refuses to intervene in the case.

_ April 20, 2001: U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara grants the Schindlers a stay until April 23 to exhaust appeals.

_ April 23, 2001: U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene.

_ April 24, 2001: Feeding tube is removed from Terri Schiavo.

_ April 26, 2001: Circuit Judge Frank Quesada orders doctors to reinsert Terri's feeding tube; the Schindlers pursue lawsuit against Michael Schiavo, accusing him of committing perjury by saying his wife did not want to be kept on life support.

_ April 30, 2001: Lawyers for Michael Schiavo file emergency motion with appellate court asking for the court to order removal of Terri's feeding tube.

_ July 11, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal sends case back to Greer.

_ July 18, 2001: Schindlers ask Judge Greer to let their doctors evaluate Terri before making a final decision on removing the feeding tube.

_ Aug. 10, 2001: Judge Greer denies the Schindlers' evaluation request, as well as their request to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian.

_ Sept. 26, 2001: Schindlers' attorneys argue before 2nd District Court of Appeal, citing testimony from seven doctors who say Terri can recover with the right treatment.

_ Oct. 3, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal delays removal of feeding tube indefinitely.

_ Oct. 17, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. Two doctors are picked by the Schindlers, two are picked by Michael Schiavo and one is picked by the court.

_ Feb. 13, 2002: Mediation attempts fail; Michael Schiavo again seeks to be allowed to remove Terri's feeding tube.

_ Oct. 12, 2002: Weeklong hearing begins in the case. Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers say she can recover.

_ Nov. 12, 2002: The Schindlers' attorney says medical records suggest Terri's condition may have been brought on by physical abuse, and asks for more time to get more evidence.

_ Nov. 22, 2002: Judge Greer rules that there is no evidence that Terri has any hope of recovery and orders feeding tube to be removed Jan. 3, 2003.

_ Dec. 13, 2002: Judge Greer stays order to remove feeding tube on Jan. 3 until the 2nd District Court of Appeal reviews the case.

_April 4, 2003: Schindlers' attorneys ask Second District Court of Appeal panel to "err on the side of life" and overturn Greer's ruling.

_June 6, 2003: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's ruling

[Ethan_Allen]

"To claim in an malpractice suit that one is going to learn nursing skills to take care of one's wife, and immediately upon receiving the money declare they she said she'd have wanted to die in such a situation seems rather suspicious, does it not?"

That's another thing that bothers me....isn't it also against the law? Fraud or something??

[supercat]

Maybe he's telling the truth about her wishes.

So did he commit perjury when he said earlier that he intended to rehabilitate his wife, and received $750K for exactly that purpose?