The Court-Ordered Death of Terri Schiavo

TownHall.com ^ | October 17, 2003 | William Federer

[Clara Lou]

If I thought you actually wanted to answer my question, I'd be happy to hear from you. However, I'm sensing that you have no answer to the question: What effective thing can Jeb Bush do to save Terri Schiavo?

[syriacus]

Please name just one effective thing Bush can do

Send someone to remove Terri from the hospice.

[maestro]

Psalm 103..............this is the eve "Crowning Feast"....unto "Simhat Torah"......rejoicing?

[Schwaeky]

he can order the FL national guard to remove her from the hospice care facility (owned by euthanasia lobbyist/lawyer for mr. schiavo, george felos) put her on a state owned jet with necessary medical care, send her up to DC to Bethesda Naval hospital (i'm sure he can pull strings after all, his brother is the President!!!) where she can recieve the necessary preservative care and ultimately rehabilatative care..

and to borrow a phrase from a different subject i once posted on, when rule of law flies in the face of human decency and morality, then rule of law should fly a kite...

[sport]

I agree with you.

If you haven't, you need to familiarize yourself with the case.

The motr you learn, the more repugnant it gets.

[Clara Lou]

back it up with force of executive action,
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying: You are saying that an elected public official should order someone under his authority to break the laws of the state of Florida, a state whose laws he has sworn to uphold? (He opens himself to kidnapping and numerous other charges.)

Is this a reasonable restatement of what you've posted?

[MHGinTN]

First I'll give you the foundation of why he ought to do, then I'll outline the can do, okay?

Judge Greer has appointed Michael Schiavo as Terri's guardian, firing a state appointed guardian in the process, a guardian who file with the court that Michael was not meeting his lawsuit obligations to pay for rehabilitation therapy for his wife, a guardian who protested that Michael Schiavo should not be appointed guardian since he had major conflicts of interest. Judge Greer appointed Michael as legal guardian but has not held the guardian to the minimum reporting standards of a legal guardian. Also, Michael has been defrauding Terri for seven plus years, cohabiting with another woman and fathering children with this other woman while still married to Terri (adultery). Michael has a major life insurance policy he stands to collect upon if Terri dies while he is married to her. Michael has refused to provide even minimal therapy for Terri while he's been her guardian, refusing even antibiotics when she had a life threatening infection. Sworn affidavits indicate that Michael may have actually tried to terminate Terri himself with one or more occasioned injections of insulin, circumstances of which are in affidavits from a nurse who treated Terri on an emergency basis upopn Michael leaving Terri's room! There is more, but you probably get the picture by now.

As governor of the state, Jeb Bush can act to stop the irreversible outcome of a failed judicial oversight, while he/his state's atty gen files the investigation papers for Greer's malfeasance and Michael Schiavo's abuse and neglect of Terri's needs. Jeb can march several uniformed State Troopers into that hospital and take Terri out or order the feeding tube be re-inserted. He can base immediate action upon the assertions found in his amicus brief filed with Judge Lazzara's court even though Lazzar refused to hear the case.

[MHGinTN]

Just so we're clear on your perspective, just what law would Jeb Bush be breaking, as per your post #126? If he acts according to his authority as chief law enforcement officer of the state of Florida, he is not breaking any law by forcing a timeout while investigation of possible criminal acts are instituted.

[Clara Lou]

As governor of the state, Jeb Bush can act to stop the irreversible outcome of a failed judicial oversight, while he/his state's atty gen files the investigation papers for Greer's malfeasance and Michael Schiavo's abuse and neglect of Terri's needs. Jeb can march several uniformed State Troopers into that hospital and take Terri out or order the feeding tube be re-inserted. He can base immediate action upon the assertions found in his amicus brief filed with Judge Lazzara's court even though Lazzar refused to hear the case.
If he can do these things in his legal capacity as governor, then I'm all for it.

[syriacus]

No licensed Hospice will let a person suffer this way. This is propaganda.

Some people do not suffer, because their bodies no longer handle nutriments well. Terri's body was not shutting down. She will feel hungry.

Is this propaganda?

Protection of Conscience Project
www.consciencelaws.org
NEWS RELEASE
   

  ADVISORY BOARD Janet Ajzenstat, BA, MA, PhD Dept. of Political Science, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Dr. Shahid Athar, MD Clinical Associate Professor of Medicine & Endocrinology, Indiana School of Medicine, Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

J. Budziszewski, PhD Professor, Departments of Government & Philosophy, University of Texas, Austin, Texas, USA

Dr. John Fleming, BA, ThL (Hons), PhD Director, Southern Cross Bioethics Institute, Adelaide, Australia

Dr. Henk Jochemsen, PhD Director, Lindeboom Institute, Center for Medical Ethics, Amsterdam, Netherlands

David Novak, AB, MHL, PhD Chair of Jewish Studies, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Lynn D. Wardle, JD Professor of Law, J. Reuben Clark Law School, Brigham Young University, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

____________

PROJECT TEAM Sean Murphy Administrator

Michael Markwick Human Rights Specialist

    5 June, 2003 1155 PM PST For Immediate Release

Court Puts Health Care Workers on the Spot

A recent decision by the Supreme Court of Victoria makes it lawful to cause the death of patients by starvation and dehydration. The court has classified nutrition and hydration not as care, but as 'treatment' that can by refused by a patient or proxy. Australian health care workers who find this morally repugnant may now find themselves in a difficult position. "There are strong ethical traditions that identify nutrition and hydration as basic care that is owed to any human being," explained Sean Murphy, Administrator of the Protection of Conscience Project. "Those who work within these traditions would no more deprive patients of food and water than take their beds and blankets." The decision in Melbourne involved a 68 year old woman suffering from a fatal form of dementia known as Pick's Disease, and has spent the past three years in a vegetative state.

Author Wesley J. Smith cites the case of Marjorie Nighbert, not terminally ill, who was admitted to a Florida nursing home following a stroke. Her feeding tube was removed on instructions from her brother. As she began to feel the effects of dehydration and hunger she begged, "Please feed me . . . I’m hungry, I’m thirsty." Nursing staff secretly slipped her small amounts of food and water. The case was eventually reviewed by a judge, who ordered the process continued. She died in April, 1995.

"Even if this is considered acceptable public policy," said Murphy, "dissenting health care workers and institutions should not be forced to participate in what they may consider to be judicially authorized euthanasia."

[Clara Lou]

Just so we're clear on your perspective, just what law would Jeb Bush be breaking, as per your post #126?
My only perspective is that even the chief executive has to abide by the law. If he has the legal authority to do as you say, then he should do so. I think Terri's husband is a louse and I dearly hope that he suffers in this life and the next for what he has done.

[MHGinTN]

Thank you for your patience in reading through my wordy explanation.

[Schwaeky]

but the problem is, the law is not working. When the law of man is just not working, it has to be set aside because the law of GOD almighty trumps all of it completely, and when the law of man contravenes the law of God, the law of man is null and void. Okay maybe I'm getting a little theological here, but time is of the essence if Terri is going to be saved. If the law doesn't work then civil disobedience is in order. But this is not state law that is being disobeyed here this is a court decision. Our nation has a vivid history of executives ignoring court decisions, for various reasons, many granted, by our standards today, to be bad choices, but a history nevertheless. And as for the nature of action, executive action would be upheld before a court could scarcely tremble in response (I seriously doubt in this grave a case, any decent FL nationalguardsmen or FHP state trooper would disobey an order from their commander-in-chief* to save this woman's life)

*under FL constitution, the Governor is Commander-in-chief of all law enforcement personnel and national guard members....

as for the florida courts, i have a very strong distaste for the courts that tried to steal George W. Bush's election away from him, so to disobey them would be to do the work of God.......

[syriacus]

Was you mother being given any medication?

[Clara Lou]

I can't answer for what happens in Australia, but I do know about Texas. That description is not correct. While I believe that Terri Schiavo should receive therapy and continue to live, and I believe that her husband should be the last person to have any legal say over her medical care [How about bigamy charges or something for having a common-law wife?], I'm simply saying that glycerine and various drugs, with regular ministrations, ease the passing so that it's nothing like that description.

[Clara Lou]

Indeed she was.

[Clara Lou]

Civil disobedience-- I understand that sometimes it's the last resort. My question is this: Do we want our elected officials engaging in it? Do we we want our elected officials to set a precedent like that? I'm probably not expressing my idea as clearly as I'd like-- but that's a slippery slope that I'm leery of.

[maestro]

bump!

[PleaseNoMore]

I wondered the same thing about the bigamy charges on another thread. I also asked if adultry was illegal in the stae of Florida. Somewhere there is an answer. I just believe this. God, I hope that it is uncovered before it is too late.

[Schwaeky]

sometimes civil disobedience is necessary to preserve the tree of liberty.... the tree of liberty must frequently be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants... the right to life is the ultimate right of liberty--the right of one to conciously self-actualize what they wish for themselves, not be subject to a fate forced upon them by a plutocracy (rule of judges)... the plutocracy has become the new tyranny in this case...