Second Hand Smoke Scam

Fox News ^ | October 17, 2003 | Steven Milloy

[CSM]

I could only laugh last April when I first heard about a study claiming that a smoking ban in Helena, Mont., cut the city

[DannyTN]

"Oh, that's right, there are more nonsmokers that don't care. I guess the market really does work, huh.

I don't know. It's a mystery to me. I don't buy that the market is always efficient. But you would think that by now the market would be rational about smoking.

But if the market is rational about smoking there doesn't appear to be that much demand for non-smoking. But I've seen a company with 1000 employees go from smoking to non-smoking when moving to a new building (not by law). And it became very emotional on both sides. Non-smokers who never challenged the status-quo, became very vocal when it became obvious that they had an opportunity to effect change.

So again, I think there are market dynamics and psychology that are not fully understood that are in play here.

[Just another Joe]

You see Danny, most of us here DO NOT CARE if a business goes nonsmoking by the owners decision.
Your example of a business going nonsmoking doesn't faze us. The owner makes a decision and we can do business there, or not do business there, as we please. We can work, or not work, there as we choose.

The thing that we disagree with is government involvement when there should be NONE.
Unless there is clear proof, and there isn't, that ETS cause irreversible damage to a person that doesn't have a pre-existing medical condition, the government should not be able to poke it's nose in.

[Mears]

Tennesee sounds like heaven to me,all those smoking restaurants that you mentioned in post #238.

[DannyTN]

"Tennesee sounds like heaven to me,all those smoking restaurants that you mentioned in post #238. "

Huh, I never associated smoke with Heaven. I always associated smoke with Hell. But I like Tennesse despite the smoke.

[qam1]

Huh, I never associated smoke with Heaven. I always associated smoke with Hell.

Read

2 Samuel 22:9 and Psalms 18:8

God smokes

[qam1]

I think smokers should have been considerate of non-smokers in public places in the first place and then you wouldn't have this backlash. Regulations are only needed when people don't do what's right in the first place.

HUH? Smokers have given up smoking in public places and accepted smoking sections in restaurants. What's more to be considerate about? Hiding in our closet so someone with sensitive eyes as yours won't ever have to see us. Sorry but it's the Anti-smoking Nazis that are inconsiderate, Hell in some places in America that's suppose to be a free country I as a smokers can't open a buisness on my private property to cater to other smokers.

Plus your arguement can be turned around so easily to include anything that a bunch of whiners wants to ban.

I think smokers People who use/participate in  should have been considerate of non-smokers  users of in public places in the first place and then you wouldn't have this backlash. Regulations are only needed when people don't do what's right in the first place.

[DannyTN]

"Read 2 Samuel 22:9 and Psalms 18:8 God smokes "

LOL. Yeah, well maybe I'll take it up in heaven.

But at the same time, psalms 10:26 compares smoke in the eyes to sending a sluggard to do a task. Can't think that's a positive thing.

[qam1]

I really don't understand why there aren't more non-smoking restaurants. I am surprised that the market doesn't enforce the majority of restaurants to go non-smoking, but there must be some market psychology that I don't understand.

Well there you go, If you think there is a market for a non-smoking establishments that's not being filled then instead of getting the government involved why don't you open your own non-smoking restaurant and/or bar?

That's another problem with total smoking bans, Places that were already non-smoking pre-ban are also hurt by the ban because they lose their niche.

[lockjaw02]

Jacob Sullum also debunked this Helena Heart "study" when it was first announced in April in an edition of his syndicated column entitled, Heartstopping Discovery.

They actually had the study posted on tobaccofreekids for a short period of time, but they immediately pulled it. I tried to point some other folks to is on this thread on debunkers.org, but the link went dead in less than 5 hours after I found it. Surprise, surprise. (yes, I do have a copy)

I've also heard that Dr Sargent, one of the study's authors, recently told someone trying to obtain a copy of the study it "wasn't available". Well, if it's not available, then why are anti-smokers still using it to further their agenda as Rosemary Ellis did in her NY Times op-ed piece, The Secondhand Smoking Gun?

Hmmm, I smell a steeeeenkin' rat.

[DannyTN]

Yeah but the only thing on that list that's both annoyiing and hard to avoid is "Lawnmowers". And they are usually only annoying at 6am. Most lawnmower users are considerate and don't mow at 6am.

[Great Dane]

Clean it up, smokers!

Here we go again............... clean up the litter EVERYBODY, not just smokers.

[Great Dane]

When I got life insurance, they asked me if I or anyone in my house smoked. Why?

Because if you smoke, they can demand higher primiums, as always, follow the money.

[qam1]

Agreed. How Many Cigarette Butts do see in this picture?

[Great Dane]

claim to have found that ETS is a significant factor in the development of asthma.

IN that case, could you please explain why with a lot fewer smokers, asthma cases are skyrocketing. ??

[Great Dane]

That Dr. Glantz?

Yes that one, and lets not forget..........HE IS NOT A DOCTOR, but an engineer.

[Great Dane]

Why do they continue to smoke in enclosed places in our presence

If smoking is allowed, it's up to you to go elsewhere.

[Great Dane]

I'm thinkin, want to play some racquetball or do some skatin before I light up?

Or how about 40 minutes of squash........... make that 80 minutes. :-}

[Great Dane]

#253..... And not a darn butt in sight.

[Hot Tabasco]

Or how about 40 minutes of squash...........

Forget it sport, the last time I played squash, (actually the first and only time was for 3 minutes) I gave it up because the damn ball (?) wouldn't bounce and the racquet was too long :)

Which brings to mind when I first started playing racquetball 19 years ago and the first balls I purchased ended up being paddle balls. I took them back to the store complaining they had holes in them..ROFLMAO !!!

[Max McGarrity]

If I do nothing else here in The People's Republik of Kookiefornia this year, I plan to get Stan-the-Sham Glantz defunded.

From the NY Times January 19, 2003

Gains on Heart Disease Leave More Survivors, and Questions.

"The numbers have been inching down for decades, but only lately have doctors begun to appreciate how profoundly things have changed for heart attacks and strokes.

"The stereotypical heart attack patient is no longer a man in his 50's who suddenly falls dead. Instead, the typical patient is a man or woman of 70 or older, who survives.

"The decline in smoking rates did not markedly affect heart disease and stroke death rates, said Dr. Lee Goldman, a professor of medicine at the University of California at San Francisco.

"A more important factor, Dr. Goldman said, is that treatment for heart attacks has changed radically."