Posted on 10/16/2003 8:58:21 AM PDT by JustPiper
Jessie's assistant was nice enough to email me this for it was not in the transcript or online.
Here you go. It was in the second half of the show, so that is what I'm sending.....
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
VENTURA: According to media accounts, in 2002, Arizona taxpayers
spent an estimated $1 billion on illegal immigrants. It is estimated that
over 200,000 illegal immigrants live in Arizona, and that over 4,000
households of illegal immigrants benefit from Arizona`s Medicaid program.
While current laws restrict illegals from gaining access to many state
benefits, most government agencies don`t have the time or money to screen
benefit seekers. With little or no enforcement of immigration laws, many
government services and jobs are taken by illegal immigrants. It shouldn`t
be surprising that citizens of Arizona are up in arms when million of their
tax dollars are going to people who have no legal right to be in this
country.
If the United States sent thousands of its citizens to Canada and they
started living off the Canadian welfare system, you can believe that it
wouldn`t be long before we either got a bill for their hospitality or there
would be busloads of illegal American immigrants being escorted back to the
United States.
Incredibly, "The New York Times" reported this week that the United
States border patrol in Laredo (ph), Texas, recently released scores of
illegal immigrants from its detention center because of the lack of space
and money. Can you believe that? Sure. We`ve got $87 billion for Iraq,
but we can`t seem to find a few bucks to enforce our own immigration laws.
It`s about time we get our act together and help our states with this very
serious problem.
The United States is the greatest country on this earth, but the fact
is we all can`t live here. With me today to talk about this problem in
Arizona is Kathy McKee, who heads up an organization called Protect Arizona
Now. On the other side of the issue is Luz Sarmina Gutierrez, did the best
I could, Luz, the president of a nonprofit social service agency in
Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome, Luz, welcome, Kathy. Briefly, Kathy, what is
Protect Arizona?
KATHY MCKEE, PROTECT ARIZONA NOW: It`s a committee that is
spearheading a statewide citizens initiative drive to get on the ballot in
2004, the Arizona Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act. It would simply
require proof of citizenship to register to vote, photo I.D. to vote and
proof of eligibility for non-federally mandated benefits.
VENTURA: Wait, wait a second. To vote?
MCKEE: Yes.
VENTURA: Illegal immigrants can vote?
MCKEE: Oh, yes. And we have a governor that`s sitting in the
governor`s mansion...
VENTURA: Wait a minute, wait a minute. That`s against -- that`s
voter fraud, isn`t it? I mean, if you`re -- if you are not a citizen of
the country and you go and vote and you`re not eligible to vote, is that
not voter fraud? That`s a punishable offense.
MCKEE: Yes. That`s why we have been under a Justice Department voter
watch. Because, in our state, you can register to vote over the Internet.
You can call up and request a ballot to be mailed to you. And then you can
vote by mail, and you have never even shown your face, much less any I.D.,
to prove who you are or to prove that you are legally registered to vote,
and they don`t check anything. So you can register your dog, and we have
had people who have done -- that have done that. Register your minor
children. People have done that, anybody.
VENTURA: What will the initiative do if it`s successful?
MCKEE: It will -- actually, it only is going to require enforcement
of existing laws. It`s no new laws.
VENTURA: OK, sure.
MCKEE: It will require...
VENTURA: It`s a shame you have to do that.
MCKEE: Isn`t it a shame that the citizens of our state have to tell
the government to get out of our way because they won`t do their job for 30
years, that we`re going to do it and -- and just get our laws enforced.
VENTURA: OK.
MCKEE: It`s the government that`s the villain in all this.
VENTURA: OK. Luz, what`s your view on the problems of illegal
immigrants? Obviously, you are taking an opposite viewpoint.
LUZ SARMINA-GUTIERREZ, PRES., VALLE DEL SOL: I certainly do.
Undocumented people are not the ones who are out there voting. The
majority of people who are undocumented want to stay underneath the radar.
They know they are undocumented, and they don`t want to be caught, they
don`t want to be sent back. Their jobs are in this country at this point,
and they need to stay there.
VENTURA: Yeah, I would tend to think it would be difficult, or why an
undocumented alien would want to vote...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They don`t.
VENTURA: ... because that is voter fraud. That`s -- I believe it is
a felony.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Sure it is.
VENTURA: And you could go to prison for that. I guess -- let me ask
you this, though, Luz. How do you defend Arizona, what I talked about at
the top, their tax dollars going to pay for benefits that people who aren`t
even supposed to be here.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Benefits are a result of the taxes that people
pay, and undocumented people pay taxes. And the fact is...
VENTURA: How do you know?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: How do I know? Because they purchase goods.
VENTURA: Well, then they pay a sales tax.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Yes, they do.
VENTURA: But they are not paying an income tax.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They may or may not be paying an income tax.
VENTURA: Well...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: But they are paying taxes. They are paying more
taxes than they are actually receiving in benefits, by $100 million more.
VENTURA: But wait, but wait, Luz. I -- that`s great, but the problem
is they are illegal.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: What does that have to do with it?
VENTURA: Oh, it has a great deal to do with it, because to me, then -
- then we have to make a choice in this country. We either take down our
borders and let everyone pass and come and go freely or we enforce the laws
we have on the books, which means you have to be -- you have to go through
certain procedure to enter this country. Now, Luz, in light of terrorism
the way it is today, I don`t think anybody in their right mind is going to
advocate us tearing down our borders...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Neither would I.
VENTURA: ... and allowing the free passage of people to come and flow
from inside the United States of America, and my point being, doesn`t this
do a disservice to every other immigrant who went through it the proper way
and filled out the forms, did everything legal to come to this country?
Doesn`t this undermine and virtually say to them, well, tough luck to you?
We`re going to give these benefits to people who didn`t do what you had to
do?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Actually, there is a third solution, Jesse. And
that solution that makes the most sense is for us to change our laws. We
have had immigration in this country that has supported our labor forever -
- really, from the Irish, from the Italians, from the Chinese, those people
have come into this country and have been the labor force of the jobs that
people don`t want to do. And we have policies that are not enforceable.
VENTURA: They are not enforceable?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They are not enforceable. If they were, CEO`s of
corporations who are hiring people to do jobs when they are undocumented
would also be locked up, because they are responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have to be...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They are responsible. And we`re punishing the
illegal person who has no documents yet is working here.
VENTURA: But -- but who still knows they broke the law to get here,
because they are sneaking in. Come on now, Luz, you`ve got -- you`ve got
to give me that one.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I will give you that. I promise. I will give you
that.
VENTURA: They are not going through the normal border.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I will give you that.
VENTURA: They are sneaking into the country.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: That`s correct.
VENTURA: So they know that what they are doing is illegal and wrong.
And so to me, it becomes very difficult to reward people for breaking laws,
whether enforced or not enforced.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: We`re not rewarding people for breaking laws.
VENTURA: Sure, you`re giving them benefits.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: We`re giving them jobs. They need the jobs.
VENTURA: What about the jobs of everybody up here?
MCKEE: Thank you. That figure that the $100 million surplus is
preposterous. Thirty-six to 42 percent of the illegal aliens in this
country are on welfare. They are not contributing a centavo. And the ones
that are getting a job are doing so at the expense of the 18 million
Americans who cannot find a job.
VENTURA: See, to me...
MCKEE: About 25 percent of our prisoners are illegal aliens, so they
are coming here for crime and welfare. They are not just coming here to
work.
VENTURA: There, you know, I understand that, but to me you have to
strip away all the repercussions and go to one basic fact. And that is
there are laws that you have to follow to enter this country, and when
people don`t follow that law, they should not be rewarded in any way,
shape, or form because to me that shows that we don`t enforce our laws and
we don`t advocate that people need to follow them.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: But we can`t be such hypocrites about it.
VENTURA: What our hypocrites? What is hypocritical...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: If we are hiring -- if we are hiring them, then we
are being hypocritical. We are not prosecuting the people who are hiring
them. And let me tell you, this economy ...
VENTURA: What about prosecuting the people that come across the
border?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: You know what? That`s happening. It is
happening.
VENTURA: I won`t go into what we used to do back in the SEALs when I
went through training, because I`m getting a lot of -- but now, is it true
70 percent of Arizonians favor this, and yet the politicians are opposed to
it. Why?
MCKEE: Actually, 78 percent of the people who are registered -- who
were in that poll and are going to vote will vote for it. The GOPUSA poll,
96 percent of the Republicans in our state support this. You have John
McCain, Jim Kolbe, and Jeff Flake thumbing their nose at their own
constituents.
VENTURA: All right. We`ll be right back. I have to cut you off,
we`ll be back right after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VENTURA: Welcome back to JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA. We were talking
about illegal immigrant problems, specifically today in Arizona. Let`s
rejoin our guests, Kathy McKee is supporting an initiative to bar illegal
immigrants from obtaining most social services in the state of Arizona, Luz
Sarmina-Gutierrez thinks that it is unfair to bar illegal immigrants from
these services. Luz, say -- some say that prejudice is a factor in this.
Do you agree? Do you think it`s prejudice against the people, Mexican or
Hispanic people?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: It could be that for some people, but I wouldn`t
go and say that that`s the main reason. I think people like Kathy truly
believe in what they are saying. However, people who come over here to
work and are working are paying for their benefits. And let me tell you,
this law is unnecessary. It`s already on the books. By Kathy`s own
admission, it`s on the books that laws need to be enforced. Passing
another initiative will not enforce it any more.
VENTURA: Well then, Luz, how do you get them if it`s already on the
books, how do you get them to enforce it then?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Change the laws.
VENTURA: See...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: The laws are not working.
VENTURA: Well, but isn`t that what she is attempting to do in a way,
shape, or form?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: No, she is talking...
VENTURA: She is trying -- she is trying to bring it to light again,
and just so that the law will be enforced in some manner?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I think she is trying to bring it to light, but
that`s not what`s going to enforce it.
VENTURA: OK.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: It`s unenforceable. It`s hypocritical for us to
say, let`s punish the people who are undocumented, but let`s let not let
everybody else go.
VENTURA: Well, of course, we could punish them all.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: That would be all right. I mean, if we`re going
to enforce...
VENTURA: So what do we do?
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: ... then let`s enforce.
VENTURA: Then what do we do with these guys we punish here, send them
across the border to the other country and make them go work down there?
MCKEE: That would...
VENTURA: Anyway, let`s go to the audience a little bit. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is some -- there is a lot of hypocrisy
here. And to me it`s the equivalent of going after -- prosecuting
prostitutes and not the johns. In this case the corporations are the
johns, because sometimes they are going out to find illegal immigrants.
There is a case of Marathon Oil in St. Paul Park, where they bring in, they
bus in illegal immigrants, they keep them in hotels. It`s like a rent a
slave program, because they don`t want to pay union wages.
VENTURA: Sure. And I`ll -- and I`ll agree to that, but the issue is
them coming across the border in the first place, isn`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, the majority of the illegal immigrants...
VENTURA: You know, because if they couldn`t get across the border in
the first place, none of these corporations would then have the
availability to use them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a problem, Jesse. A lot of the
undocumented workers that come to this country come legally, on visiting
visas and other visas, and then they overstay the visa.
VENTURA: So they break the rules.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They break the rules, but the idea of people
crawling over the border is wrong. That`s not the way it happens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there is still a lot of that happening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody is missing the point. They are changing
the language so that it`s politically correct. Illegal is illegal.
Undocumented is undocumented. But illegal is illegal.
VENTURA: That`s the bottom line I am coming from. Is that the basic
thing, is they are here illegally. That -- that supersedes all the rest of
it in my opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what happens -- what happens if we enact this
law, and we really enforce it and we turn -- we cut these guys loose?
What`s the social -- these are, you know, immigrants, they are still going
to be in our country. It`s not like we just give them a plane ticket and
bus them off. What are the strains on our, you know, streets...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just come back, Jesse. That`s the point.
When you send them back, they come back.
VENTURA: That`s the point, that`s exactly the point. How do we get
control of them from just coming back?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they are (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
VENTURA: It`s better to document them at the border. Why don`t we
set up a border thing that says all illegal aliens that want to work come
to this line. And we`ll get, you know, and then you`ll at least get a 30-
day I.D. or some -- but then, what do we do when they break the rule and
don`t leave when they are supposed to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You track them.
VENTURA: You see, it`s a two-way street. When they want something
from us and they want an advantage from us, in turn they then have to give
something back to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they have in taxes. There are taxes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are, there are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
VENTURA: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not paying income tax.
VENTURA: All right. Should President Bush call for an illegal
immigration summit in North America? I say yes, because you have a problem
here that`s welling and growing and growing. Not only Arizona.
California, Texas, all over. I think President Bush should take an
initiative, call a summit, President Fox, other presidents and people
representative of all these countries, and try to work this problem out.
And for those countries to do something about stopping their people from
simply influxing and coming across to our border.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I can`t believe that, you know, the most
powerful country in the world cannot control our borders. So the
government also ...
VENTURA: It`s easy they can`t control our borders. That`s simple to
know why they can`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t want to.
VENTURA: No, no. What are we -- what are we to do? Put up a cyclone
fence with the military standing there with the M-16`s at the border?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it ...
VENTURA: We could do it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the economy. These people are fueling our
economy. So it`s not -- it`s not advantageous to the government to really
do something about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think people are really looking at...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason is my mom ...
(CROSSTALK)
VENTURA: OK, All right. Kathy, how do you respond to what a lot of
people have said?
MCKEE: They are buying into the myth. 10,000 a day, a day illegal
immigrants cross our Tucson border alone, into the Tucson sector. That`s a
new Phoenix every year, people. They are not coming here just to work.
The 35 -- the 36 to 42 percent that are on welfare certainly -- there -- we
have no employers to go after. Look at this. This is our application for
welfare in Arizona. It says on here in big, bold letters -- you must tell
us your immigration status, but in big, bold letters, we will not report
this information to the INS. Citizens they arrest for welfare fraud. Our
welfare department will not report these people to the INS.
VENTURA: Now I think that`s outrageous. When you read that, and it
tells them straightforward right on the application we need to know your
status, but trust us, we`re not going to report you for anything. To me,
those are two government agencies; the left hand doesn`t know what the
right hand is doing. Luz.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: State employees are not in the immigration
enforcement business. They are in the state employees business. And
you`re asking them to now become enforcers. That`s impossible.
VENTURA: No, no, no.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Yes.
VENTURA: In this country, when you see a crime committed, you`re
obligated to report that crime. If you`re a citizen out on the street and
you see a wrongdoing, it`s your obligation ...
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Correct.
VENTURA: ... to report to the authorities what you saw. That is --
if you`re here illegally, that`s the breaking of a law, and I think you`re
obligated to report that.
SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: You know what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they are also supposed to be serving the
state. By allowing undocumented immigrants to take welfare from normal,
regular citizens, you`re doing a disservice to your state.
MCKEE: And we have ...
VENTURA: OK, very good. Kathy, we would love to go on. We`re only
an hour show. Luz, thank you very much to both of you for flying up here.
Thank you, Luz and Kathy. We will be back right after this to JESSE
VENTURA`S AMERICA
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VENTURA: There is always a lot of heroes and dorks in the news, but
every week I`ll pick who I think is the biggest hero and the biggest dork
of the week. You can nominate a hero and a dork by dropping me an e-mail
at ventura@msnbc.com.
Let`s start this week with the hero. This week, we heard about a
Toronto police detective who just plain got fed up. Sergeant Paul
Gillespie works in the sex crimes unit and specializes in cases involving
child exploitation, specifically child porn on the Internet. Sergeant
Gillespie sent an e-mail to a high-ranking manager at Microsoft, asking for
help in designing software to bust those who traffic in the child porn net.
The e-mail landed on the desk of Bill Gates. The result, Microsoft is
now working at no cost with the Toronto Police Department and is ready to
roll out the first trial of a sophisticated search tool to help in the
fight against the hundreds of thousands of child porn sites on the
Internet.
Sergeant Gillespie, because of your efforts to fight the proliferation
of child porn, you are making this world a better place. And you are my
hero of the week.
Now it`s time for the dork of the week. You know, when you play with
wild animals, you run the risk of being bitten by the hand that feeds you.
No, I`m not talking about the tragic event in Las Vegas. Siegfried & Roy
are professionals. This week`s dork is not a professional animal handler.
Our dork is an Antoine Yates.
Doesn`t appear six days a week on stage with his tiger. Mr. Yates
appeared with his tiger seven days a week in a public housing apartment in
New York. Not only did he keep a tiger as a roommate, he kept a five-foot-
long alligator.
Yes, he`s a dork, but the people who lived in the apartment complex
are also dorks. Can the super please send me the addresses and names of
these people? JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA, here`s a note. Anything outside of
a dog, cat, gerbil, bunny, rabbit, guinea pig, hamster, turtle, or goldfish
is not a household pet. OK.
Thanks to our guests, Representative Charles Rangel, Kathy McKee, Luz
Sarmina-Gutierrez, and thanks to you at home for watching JESSE VENTURA`S
AMERICA.
And remember, my Minnesota Twins lost. They are out of the playoffs.
I`m now cheering for the Chicago Cubs. When you lose your team, you got to
pick up -- you got to pick up somebody else, and I`ll tell you what, I`ve
got one of Sammy Sosa`s bats he gave me personally, he autographed it. And
believe me, there is no cork in it. I`ve checked it.
Anyway, good night to all of you, keep an eye out for those dorks.
And remember, I`m Jesse Ventura and this is JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA, where
we will make you think. You may not always agree with me, but I will make
you think about it. Thank you.
END
You were the one to catch it, why not email him, email addy is provided in post ;)
Alot of our politicians are Corporate America.
Bump!
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