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The Rape of Rita Hayworth: The WB Network, Hispanic Racism, and "Authentic Learning"
A Different Drummer ^ | 15 October 2003 | Nicholas Stix

Posted on 10/14/2003 12:45:53 PM PDT by mrustow

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To: wtc911
Three things...

Hayworth was born in BROOKLYN.

I've seen conflicting repoirts. Some say Brooklyn, some just "New York City," which is universally used (mistakenly, I might add) to mean Manhattan. (Prior to the 1898 joining of the four "outer" boroughs with Manhattan, "New York City" and "Manhattan" were synonymous.)

50% of NYC HS students fail to graduate in 4 years, 30% fail to get GED by 21.

This doesn't necessarily conflict witht he stats in the linked article, since IINM, dropout figures aren't based on failure to graduate in four years. Failure to graduate in 20 years, is probably more like it.

Marysol Castro is the sexiest NYC talking head...dumb as a stump but so sweet.

Now that you mention it, I recall hearing those exact words before about a New York TV host -- it must have been her. (Did she ever work on NY1?)

141 posted on 10/15/2003 10:51:44 AM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: mrustow
Having read your and Nasstarr's posts, some superficial overlap notwithstanding, I am deeply skeptical about you both thinking alike.

Nasstarr was quick to throw out the "bigot" label which I rarely if ever do but the gist of his post was summarized at the end of his post:

Sadly, words get co-opted by political groups with agendas, and they become distorted in our popular vernacular and our popular culture.

That is precisely what I had posted earlier in Post 114.

As someone whose ancestry all goes back to Spain and before that, to ancient Hispania and as someone with a deep interest in Clasical history, I am a little peeved that the appelations deriving from "Hispania" have been stripped from it's rightful descendents and co-opted to apply to those who are Mesoamerican Indians.

142 posted on 10/15/2003 11:05:44 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: cyborg
Oh yeah... Chicago Hope. Sorry I said ER didn't I? I was thinking of medical drama shows that started to suck so I stopped watching... ER immediately came to mind. MY BAD.

No sweat. They both started the same week (1995?), and I used to be a fan of both, though I lost interest in Chicago Hope much sooner ... about the same time its producer, David Kelley, did. I looked it up last spring, on jumptheshark.com, and was surprised to discover that it had been cancelled a couple of years earlier.

I did love Mandy Patinkin on that show, though, as surgeon Dr. Jeffrey Geiger, and some of the things Kelley did early on, like have the Patinkin character direct a musical in a madhouse, starring his beloved but insane wife. That permitted Patinkin to sing a heartbreakingly beautiful medley he'd also recorded, that included "When I Get Too Old to Dream." Kelley has that romantic, "love-is-forever" side, but he also has his "what's-this-week's-gimmick?" side, and so eternal love eventually got bumped off, in favor of a new gimmick, and Geiger divorced his wife.

143 posted on 10/15/2003 11:11:16 AM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: Polybius
As I noted in my Post 114, the use of the term "Hispanic" in it's current P.C. context is very recent. In 1973, Webster's Dictionary defined it in it's proper form.

The use of the P.C. codeword "Hispanic" to mean "non-white Mexican" is as recent as the use of the P.C. codeword "immigrant" to mean "illegal alien" and the use of the P.C. codeword "choice" to mean third trimester abortion.

I'm aware of the most recent case (immigrant=illegal alien), because at many media outlets it just occurred, and I've been studying up on the topic the past couple of months. I wasn't aware that "Hispanic" was a euphemism for "non-white Mexican." You sure you didn't mean "non-white Latin"? In any event, that was surprising, since I'm sure I've heard white Latins apply the term to themselves -- for the benefit of non-Latin audiences. As for "choice," I wasn't aware of that, but it made sense, the moment I saw you define it that way, since the abortion movement refuses to accept any limitations on abortion, which means that it rejects even Roe vs. Wade.

144 posted on 10/15/2003 11:20:16 AM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: nicksaunt
"...so many beautiful girls. Mostly gone now."

Rita Hayworth, Loretta Young, Linda Darnell, Gene Tierney, Betty Grable, Ava Gardner, Susan Hayward, Marilyn Monroe, Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Vivien Leigh, Lana Turner, the list goes on and on. You would be hard pressed to find someone today as beautiful and talented as these ladies.

Who do we have today?

Julia Roberts, Susan Sarandon, Meryl Streep, Gwyneth Paltrow, Jodie Foster.

Not even on the same page.

Wow, when you put it that way ...

I have no doubt that Streep is more talented an actress than any of her forebears, save Leigh, and that she is Leigh's equal. Streep convinced me of that, when I saw her in The Bridges of Madison County. Granted, she does not compare to Leigh as a beauty (or as a mental case, for that matter).

And let us not forget Jessica Lange, who is something of a throwback (a throwback in her loony politics, too).

And Renee Zellweger.

But that's an awfully short list. Otherwise, you're right. And I think the demise of the studio system is the cause of the dearth of talented, beautiful actresses today. The stars of the past hated the studio system, and the men who ran it were crude, vile characters, and yet, you know what? They had better taste - in spite of themselves - than all the film school grads in the world. And they set up a system where a starlet had to learn her trade through hard work -- diction lessons, acting lessons, even lessons on how to walk the part. By contrast, today's celebrities think all they need is the right agent. So, whereas under the studio system, immensely talented stars had no choice but to display teamwork, today you've got ego without talent.

145 posted on 10/15/2003 11:40:47 AM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: mrustow
I wasn't aware that "Hispanic" was a euphemism for "non-white Mexican." You sure you didn't mean "non-white Latin"? In any event, that was surprising, since I'm sure I've heard white Latins apply the term to themselves -- for the benefit of non-Latin audiences. As for "choice," I wasn't aware of that, but it made sense, the moment I saw you define it that way, since the abortion movement refuses to accept any limitations on abortion, which means that it rejects even Roe vs. Wade.

Although not limited to non-white Mexicans, it is a very convinient P.C. euphemism that is mostly used in that manner.

When, for example, does the press ever use the word "Mexican" in their headlines about crime, poverty or school drop out rates?

When, for example, does a police report advise to be on the lookout for a 30 year old, 5'9", slender Mexican mestizo male?

If the police were out looking for a missing "13 year Hispanic girl", would they ever give a second look to my white, blond, blue-eyed daughter if they walked right past her?

We don't use cultural but non-physically descriptive terms such as "Catholic" or "Protestant" or "Republican" to describe individuals being sought by the police. However, "Hispanic" is used in that manner rountinely precisely because it has become the Politically Correct euphimism for Mestizo or Indio.

So, Hispania, one of the most ancient geographical names in European history, has had it's adjective co-opted to mean mestizo, indio, black, mulato or anything else except white. For example:

Marriage Among Unwed Mothers: Whites, Blacks and Hispanics Compared

I am not advocating the use of "Hispanic" in such a manner. I am protesting it.

Since Chicanos despise the term Hispanic because they feel it strips them of their Indian heritage, I would propose that the P.C. euphimism for mestizos be changed to something such as "MesoAmericans" which they can culturally embrace so that those of us with our 2000+ year-old roots in Hispania can get our proper name back.

146 posted on 10/15/2003 12:41:47 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: mrustow
Why didn't you know?! Diversity is what enables all these liberal sh*tbags to persecute the white race. No matter that if it wasn't for Whites, this country wouldn't exist as a free country. The Founding Fathers were all of Anglo European descent! We must fight the liberal Marxist ideology wherever it rears its ugly head.
147 posted on 10/15/2003 2:06:05 PM PDT by Colt .45 (Cold War, Vietnam Era, Desert Storm Veteran - Pride in my Southern Ancestry!)
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To: Polybius
Great post! Wish I could've made it myself.

BTW: CUBA LIBRE!

148 posted on 10/15/2003 2:33:14 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Polybius
"Hispanic" was used at least in the early 1950s in Texas. The point was not to use "Mexican" as that was reserved for citizens of Mexico.

(My suggestions to use anglophone and hispanophone analogophonously with Canada probably won't be acceptable.)
149 posted on 10/15/2003 2:35:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Colt .45
Why didn't you know?!

Hey, it's hard to keep up. And when I try to keep score, my scorecard gets all messed up from the constant substitions, whereby a term's meaning is changed, without notice, to its opposite.

Diversity is what enables all these liberal sh*tbags to persecute the white race. No matter that if it wasn't for Whites, this country wouldn't exist as a free country. The Founding Fathers were all of Anglo European descent! We must fight the liberal Marxist ideology wherever it rears its ugly head.

Some of us have had to break with our own families, over such treachery.

150 posted on 10/15/2003 2:41:35 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Some of us find "anglophone" and "hispanophone" phonous sounding, rather than analogophonous, but -- hold the phonous! -- the definitions are changing as I type.
151 posted on 10/15/2003 2:45:50 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: mrustow
Not to mention the sarusophone.
152 posted on 10/15/2003 2:52:28 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: mrustow
Great analogy regarding the star system of today vs the studio system of yesteryear. Thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, I believe that your analogy could be used in looking at the mindset of today's workplace. For the most part, the days of hard work and paying your dues are gone. Today, you see more of the culture of instant gratification and entitlement. The end result; less quality work performance.

153 posted on 10/15/2003 3:01:06 PM PDT by nicksaunt
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To: nicksaunt
Somehow, I think Veronica Lake should be mentioned.
154 posted on 10/15/2003 3:42:54 PM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: nicksaunt
You're right. It's pervasive. When I came back after spending five years studying (and working, to support the studying) in West Germany, I had a Mother's Day brunch with my mom and sister. My sister, a political aide (albeit a very hardworking one), was glowing over a new fellow in her politician boss's office. The kid had just graduated from college, and never worked a day in his life, yet he had been automatically made a supervisor. An entry-level supervisor? Well, he was Hispanic, obviously well-to-do, and Sis glowed about how "he studied abroad." (He did a one-year joke of a study abroad program.) When I repeated, "He studied abroad," she realized how stupid she sounded, and apologized. The guy had no qualifications. How could he? He'd never done anything.

In grad school in the U.S., I had profs who hated my guts, and made sure I knew it. I didn't know my place. They were Jews, just like me (the Christians were more kindly.), but they despised people who decide to do something, and do it, despite not having the connections that get Fulbright grants, the family money, etc. I didn't waste my time, hanging around, trying to gain their approval (although a lot of classmates did).

Before I left, a rich-kid feminist I'd helped out with a conference gig, told me, regarding my years abroad, "You were there so many years, but didn't do anything." Since I had already outlived my usefulness, she didn't feel any more need to be nice to me. Then she ran off, to suck up to the sort of conservative, white male professor, Alasdair MacIntyre, that she would rail against -- in theory.

She was about to leave on a Fulbright or Rotary grant to study in Germany, even though she didn't know any German. (She'd already received the Rotary, but was waiting to see if she'd get the Fulbright.)

A few years later, at age 30 or less, she was a tenure-track philosophy prof. Meanwhile, for every rich-kid feminist like her, there are 50 adjuncts who'll never get so much as an interview for a full-time teaching job.

Rather than let such people bring me down, I left school, and started my own magazine. I had no capital, and it ran aground after three issues, but hey, those were some three issues! If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't change a thing.

More recently, I met a rich white kid who looked to be about 16. (I'm sure he was at least 20.) He had just graduated from college, yet he had been hired to his first job as the "director of the book program" at a neocon think tank.

Granted, those are isolated, perhaps atypical cases, but I could come up with a lot more from the most diverse lines of work -- and so could you.

A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of watching newly retired Gen. Tommy Franks interviewed on the David Letterman Show. Talk about a gentleman. No pretenses, no airs, no political calculations. He had a delightful, self-deprecating sense of humor (joked about flunking out of UTexas the first time around), made a point of constantly showing respect to his wife ("If I forgot to mention that, I wouldn't be able to go home"), and best of all, told of joining the Army "as a private soldier."

No West Point, no nothing. And we know how decisive this man is in battle. He's the anti-Clark.

Unfortunately, he's also a dinosaur.

In an earlier time, when opportunity was much more plentiful, ambitious men who found themselves thwarted, picked up and started their own businesses. Today, in a time with much less opportunity, that has become much more difficult. You know how many hoops a small businesssman has to jump through, between permits, sales tax forms, and lawyers? (As a failed small businessman, I know these things.) And yet, it is those crazy guys who don't fit into established corporations, starting up businesses in their garages with a wing and a prayer, that continually renew America. And for every Packard or Hewlett or Gates, there are likely a thousand who fail, whom we'll never hear about.

155 posted on 10/15/2003 4:07:22 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Not to mention the sarusophone.

How could I have forgotten the sarusophone?!

156 posted on 10/15/2003 5:27:35 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: Polybius
>>Welcome to FreeRepublic.
We apparently think alike. (See Post 114 above.) :-) <<

Thank you Polybius! I did read your post 114, as well as other posts that you have written, and I agree, we do think alike! {smile}..


157 posted on 10/15/2003 5:27:52 PM PDT by Nasstarr
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To: mrustow
>>You're projecting, Disruptor, 10/15/2003. Show where Stix uses the term "Hispanics" racially. In fact, he explicitly criticizes such usage. You are dishonestly projecting the usage Stix criticized onto Stix himself. I guess you're hoping that most people reading your post won't have read the article. <<

It is implicit by Stix's use of the word "hispanic" and "white" as mutually exclusive words, that Stix is racializing the word hispanic.


>>Why shouldn't Stix get bent out of shape, when a TV reporter makes a racist remark? You're not bent out of shape, because you are pleased by racist remarks, as long as whites are on the receiving end of them. <<

Brainstorm, I am white!

Since, certain people have misread or misunderstood, what I have tried to say, let me clarify myself. In the strictest [and most accurate] form of the word, "hispanic" means a Spaniard or a Spanish descendant. In the way that the word has been co-opted, manipulated, changed, mangled in American vernacular, it has come to mean, a non-white Latin American. There is no room in the definition of the word as it is used, today, by people like Stix and other journalists, and media types in the USA for a white, euro hispanic. If the word is going to be used to just mean Latin American,[and NOT in the strictest and most accurate sense of the word; hispanic = Spaniard or Spanish descendant] THEN at least recognize that Latin America is as demographically diverse as the USA with whites, blacks, indians, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Arabs, Asians, latins, anglo saxons, germanics, scandanavians, celtics and even slavs! If "hispanic" is going to become an umbrella term, recognize that within that umbrella group there are millions of whites. Why leave them out???

158 posted on 10/15/2003 5:46:26 PM PDT by Nasstarr
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To: Nasstarr
>>You're projecting, Disruptor, 10/15/2003. Show where Stix uses the term "Hispanics" racially. In fact, he explicitly criticizes such usage. You are dishonestly projecting the usage Stix criticized onto Stix himself. I guess you're hoping that most people reading your post won't have read the article. <<

It is implicit by Stix's use of the word "hispanic" and "white" as mutually exclusive words, that Stix is racializing the word hispanic.

See first paragraph above -- yet again.

>>Why shouldn't Stix get bent out of shape, when a TV reporter makes a racist remark? You're not bent out of shape, because you are pleased by racist remarks, as long as whites are on the receiving end of them. <<

Brainstorm, I am white!

Who said you weren't? I know lots of whites who are pleased as punch by every expression of anti-white racism.

If your agenda was to emphasize that Hispanics are not a race, you could have simply said that, without projecting onto Stix a position he never took, and then criticizing him for others' racialization. He explicitly referred to multiculturalists' use of "Hispanic" as a racial catergory. If you missed that, you need to read the entire article.

159 posted on 10/16/2003 8:56:19 AM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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