Posted on 03/05/2016 2:23:39 PM PST by SatinDoll
It's amusing to watch people latch onto something that they think is full of red meat and beat their heads against the wall pontificating on it, when there's just no "there" there.
This is one of those times.
Let's take the base argument: Trump University was a "per-se" fraud because it wasn't an accredited school.
Ok, fair enough -- and the name was changed to the Trump Entrepreneurship Institute [TEI] following NY State having a hissy fit over the name. But folks -- that's a naming dispute, not a dispute over the substance of the material.
Schneiderman has his own take on this and is suing; I predict he's going to lose, but I could be wrong. There's plenty of spin involved in these allegations by the people doing the suing and quite a bit of appearance of abuse of power (in the case of Schneiderman particularly), but here's the real problem all these suits have in common: There's apparently a record from many, if not most, filing evaluations at the time of the seminars in which they claim to be satisfied, and which bears their signatures. In other words where are the damages if almost nobody is unhappy with what they paid for? It certainly makes for a tough road if the essence of the suit is fraud (that is, material misrepresentation that induces someone to do a thing and they suffer loss as a result.)
There is also a lot of smoke out there about the price of these things -- 3 day seminars (a weekend, basically) costing about $1,500 to start, along with apparently a series of them you could take for quite a lot more.
I don't know where you folks have been in the last 20 or 30 years but $1,500 for a three-day seminar is pretty standard among for-profit events. They also tend to be held in pretty tony places; $300+ a night on top of the seminar cost is not abnormal at all for the requisite hotel. So yeah, you're into this for a clean $2k plus your travel costs to do them, and the organizers make a nice amount of money on them as a result. Get a couple hundred people in there and the gross just on registrations is about $300,000; yes, you have catering expenses and such but most hotels will comp the meeting space if you fill the room block. I've spoken at a couple, and I don't do it for free -- if the value is there for the organizer and guests then as a speaker I ought to get something for the considerable time and effort that I put into preparing for such an event, and I do. Virtually all of these events tend to have some sort of exhibit hall associated with them and the organizer makes money on the table rental there too, quite a bit of money in most cases, as the organizations that rent those tables are there to sell whatever associated product or service that they think attendees will be interested in. In fact I'd be shocked if running one of these wasn't worth a cool hundred large per weekend after all expenses, including paid speaker fees and their travel, your crew's costs including their travel and lodging, and everything else was all tidied up.
The Internet has greatly narrowed the field of the seminar folks, simply because it's made information so much more-available at far lower cost. I'm not even slightly surprised that these seminars are gone, having disappeared following the '08 crash, both due to the changes in the real estate market and the proliferation of information via online means.
As for the BBB angle, it's worthless in either direction. As a former CEO my view on the BBB is 180 degrees out-of-phase with that of most consumers. BBB "accreditation" requires membership for a fee. Unfortunately the fact that the BBB is decentralized (the various regional units are more-or-less independent), "pay to play" organization and businesses are the ones paying, while the consumer is the one allegedly protected, along with the fact that their measurement means you can't expect consistency, especially across organizations that are and are not "members" or are and are not "accredited." In other words whether the organization was listed as "A+", "D" or not at all gives you nothing actionable.
In short I don't think there's anything wrong with Trump's organization having a piece of itself that ran seminars that charged an amount of money that was roughly what I'd expect to see charged for this sort of thing. That they ran afoul of a state law on their name doesn't exercise me much either. And finally, given the apparent number of people who took these seminars and that nearly all of them appear to have been happy with what they received I'm trying to figure out exactly what the argument here is. If it's that he made money at it, well, isn't that what capitalists are supposed to be doing?
The bottom line is this: Have you ever seen a business operate with thousands of customers with a 100% satisfaction rate?
Neither have I.
The article itself is trivial. The “Trump University” thing is a problem on many levels. But even more importantly, it is minor compared to so much other stuff regarding Trump. It’s like saying, “People say the titanic had bad plumbing, but I can show that it was really not that bad.”
if he refunded the money then where are the damages? there are none
And yet all you have to talk about is Trump University.
My biggest concern with Trump is his personal style is likely to cause WWIII.
Hey, I loved the guy at first because I thought his bringing up stuff in the discussion that was normally poison was a great way to get it out there where other candidates were able to then address it. He was kinda like a “super Rush Limbaugh”.
I was shocked, and still am, that thinking conservaltives actually support him for president. His record is out there for everyone to read. He’s good at being a loud mouthpiece about things we need to be addressing, but he’d be a terrible president. And maybe WORSE than lousy.
Right, because “thinking conservatives” would obviously support the candidate that lies about his citizenship status to get elected to the Senator.
Read it. Look at his record.
What record, that he is one of the most successful businessmen in human history.
Not only have I been reading since he decided to run, but I WAS THERE. You can’t revise the history to someone who was there.
Check it out...this is one of the folks complaining.
http://www.98percentapproval.com/uploads/Kevin_Scott_Survey.pdf
I have no clue what your point is, other then you’re just an idiot.
Our young people are spending over a hundred thousand on a degree at our universities with nothing to show for it. Now that’s what I call a con job. Seminar courses are just that.
Learn how to write a coherent sentence that actually communicates something other then gibberish, then get back to me.
;-)
Here is a vanity of mine from a while ago, and also gives you a perspective on my attitude about all of this:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3170217/posts
Thanks for the link. That is the exact reason why I asked my question (How many graduates of TU are there), because there are a certain number of malcontents in any sufficiently large group. If there were 1,000,000 graduates and only 5,000 complained, then the 98% number is not terribly out of line. However, since they only have 10,000 of these reviews and 5,000 folks who have joined in a lawsuit against TU, I have to wonder what the percentage of actual “satisfied customers” is.
Do you have any idea how many graduates of TU there are? I can’t find the answer and hoped someone here would shed some light on the question.
Man, I feel like I’m arguing on a liberal site. This is truly amazing. It is a reflection of our times and our culture’s desperation. Under such circumstances it never goes well.
For me, my faith is in the Lord, not human leaders. YMMV.
You people are unbelievable, you sit here squabbling about meaningless things like a Trump University law suit.
And you are right about the GOPe. It’s why the ONLY candidate I will vote for is Cruz. For me, it’s Cruz or lose.
And what is the “stupidity” attack? Why the ad-hominem? Shouldn’t we be above ad-hominem on FR?
If you think someone is stupid, present evidence that demonstrates it. Don’t just call people names. That, my friend, is stupid behavior. We are above that on FR.
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