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Another conservative criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan
Freedom Works Blog and New York Times via United Liberty Blog ^
| October 7, 2011
Posted on 10/08/2011 5:51:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Earlier this week, I noted some of the criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan from conservative circles, Kevin Williamson of the National Review chalks it up as “wishful thinking that borders on fantasy,” while Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute doesn’t like that it keeps the income tax in the tax code.
Dean Clancy, vice president of FreedomWorks — a leading tea party organization, sees good in the proposal; but notes that there are some glaring problems that could lay the precendent for bad tax policy in the future:
The first problem is that it doesn’t get rid of the income tax. In fact, it adds a new tax — a national sales tax — on top of the income tax. Cain clearly intends that eventually the income tax will be eliminated. But what’s to guarantee that outcome? And if we want to get rid of the income tax — and we should — why not do it right from the start? Is it possible that he realizes that if he did it all in one step, folks might not be as keen on the plan (say, because his national sales tax would have to be closer to 25% than 9%)?
[,,,]
The second problem with Cain’s plan is more serious. The plan puts in place the infrastructure for a VAT — a Value Added Tax. That’s bad. Very bad.
A VAT is a form of national sales tax that is collected at every stage of the process from the initial gathering of raw materials to the final sale to the end consumer. It is the most insidious of all taxes, because it is built into the price of everything and consumers can’t see how much of the price is due to the tax. So when prices rise due to a tax hike, consumers assume it’s just prices rising due to market forces. Politicians love this about a VAT. They can take more money out of our wallets than with other, more transparent forms of taxation. Taxpayers should hate it for the very same reason.
European countries have much higher overall tax takes than does the United States. Why? Because the Europeans all have VATs, and we do not. Total receipts of the US Government since World War II have averaged about 18 percent of GDP and have never exceeded 20.9 percent (the peak, in 1944). By comparison, the “Big Six” European countries’ total receipts since the early 1970s when VATs became ubiquitous have not been less than 30 percent of GDP and today average a little over 40 percent! Twice as high as in the US.
Well, you say, Cain’s national sales tax isn’t a VAT. Okay, that’s true. But guess what? Europe’s first VATs all started out life as national sales taxes. Sales taxes are relatively easy to evade. VATs are much harder to evade. So sales taxes have a habit of evolving into VATs. That’s what happened in Europe. And it’s what will happen here, if we adopt Cain’s sales tax.
But Cain isn’t running on serious policy proposals. The guy knows how to market and pitch an idea; after all, the 9-9-9 plan is easy to remember and the one-liners that he is tossing out are catchy. This may be good for selling pizzas, but not for tax policy. And the lack of seriousness is best exemplified by his campaign, which has no campaign stops in early primary states this month:
[A]ccording to his public campaign calendar of events, where 19 of the 31 days of October are blank, there will not be much glad-handing in the immediate future. That is just fine with Mr. Cain, a former business executive who has recently surged to the top tier of candidates in early polls. The latest Quinnipiac University poll, released Wednesday, found Mitt Romney and Mr. Cain essentially tied within the polls margin of sampling error.
Im trying to run this campaign like a start-up business, which means lean and mean, Mr. Cain said in an interview on Tuesday, wearing his signature black cowboy hat. Theres a new sheriff in town.
[…]
But it is not clear that Mr. Cain, 65, has any particular plan to seize this moment, beyond using the attention to sell books. Like the other candidates vying to become credible alternatives to Mr. Romney and Mr. Perry, Mr. Cain is operating on a shoestring. He raised $2 million last spring. More money is coming in, he said, and he has 40 staff members, mostly in Southern states. Still, an adviser to the campaign said the campaign had only four people working in Iowa, and there is no plan to change strategy.
Many Republicans doubt this will be enough to launch Mr. Cain in the crucial early states, especially if he decides to avoid retail politics.
No candidate can afford to spend two or three weeks not being in New Hampshire this year, said Steve Duprey, a Republican National Committee member from the state. He has not made as much progress organizing in New Hampshire as he could have, but theres time.
Cain defends this by saying he’s been to Iowa nearly 30 times since the beginning of the year. That’s fine, but organization is key and at least four other campaigns (Bachmann, Paul, Perry, and Romney) are investing time and/or money there. Not to mention that there are four other primaries/caucuses in January that Cain’s campaign needs to drop resources into.
With Cain you’ve got a master of the soundbyte that has the populist appeal to get his party’s base excited, yet his inexperience and lack of substance are real concerns. Wait, that reminds me of someone…Herman Cain is the Republican Barack Obama.
TOPICS: Parties
KEYWORDS: 999; hermancain; neinneinnein; taxplan
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To: SeekAndFind
The guy knows how to market and pitch an idea; after all, the 9-9-9 plan is easy to remember He stole it from his rival--Dominos.

Good to see his idiotic plan being scrutinized. But I fear the Kool-Aid has already taken effect, and now the Tea Party wants to tax tea!
101
posted on
10/08/2011 11:47:10 PM PDT
by
Huck
(NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
To: calex59
102
posted on
10/08/2011 11:51:04 PM PDT
by
Donnafrflorida
(Thru HIM all things are possible.)
To: calex59
103
posted on
10/08/2011 11:51:19 PM PDT
by
Donnafrflorida
(Thru HIM all things are possible.)
To: Donnafrflorida
I am a FReeper, but the comment was not meant for you. Sorry!
104
posted on
10/08/2011 11:58:59 PM PDT
by
calex59
To: calex59
To: altura
I was a Perry supporter until he told me I had no heart and came across as an average intellect at best in the last 3 debates. You have to admit that his debating skills pale compared to Newt. After 8 years of Bush, I want someone more articulate than the libs.
To: mylife
To: xzins
Calling good people the devil is such a Christian thing to say.
To: MNJohnnie
Thank you for explaining this plan to the willfully ignorant much better than I could.
To: Huck
I’m glad our resident Constitution hater has chimed in.
To: MNJohnnie
Because the plan is not being fairly explained.
For example, the plan brings in roughly 1.2 trillion dollars, but the country currently brings in aboput a trillion more than that now. That would be about the size of the social security we are now bringing in. That would be about the cost of the Chilean social security model.
IOW, this plan is not designed to pay for social security and med, but basically for the cost of government itself.
We will have a new requirement to put about 15% of our income into a new retirement account in our name. (And I would prefer that.) However, it is STILL a deduction from one’s income. Therefore, one cannot claim that this tax is less because it rids us of payroll taxes for those are the very taxes that pay for SS & Med. SS brings in roughly 850 billion a year and that’s just about the amount missing that this plan does not bring in.
There are other problems with it, then, that have it increasing taxes on everyone. Do you not think that Obama will run against that, loving every minute of watching himself be the low taxer while Cain is the high taxer?
111
posted on
10/09/2011 1:52:43 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
To: altura
112
posted on
10/09/2011 2:16:41 AM PDT
by
KDD
(When the government boot is on your neck, it matters not whether it is the right boot or the left.)
To: conservativebuckeye
“Politicians are the devil”
LOL.
I don’t spose you see the humor in it, do you?
While walking down the street one day, a politician is tragically hit by a truck and killed. His soul arrives in Heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
“Welcome to Heaven,” says St. Peter. “Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we’re not sure what to do with you.”
“No problem, just let me in,” says the politician.
“Well, I’d like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we’ll do is have you spend one day in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.”
“There’s no need! I want to be in Heaven,” says the politician.
“I’m sorry, but we have our rules.” And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator, the doors open, and he rides the elevator down, down, down. When the doors open again, the politician finds himself in the middle of a beautiful green golf course. In the distance is a club, and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
Everyone is very happy and in formal dress. They run to greet him, and they reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster and caviar.
Also present is the Devil, who is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that, before the politician realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a big hug and waves while the elevator rises. The elevator goes up, up, up, and the door reopens in Heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.
So 24 hours pass with the politician joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by, and St. Peter returns.
“Well, you’ve spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now, you must choose where you want to spend eternity.”
He reflects for a minute and then answers, “Well, I would never would have thought it, I mean Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better satisfied in Hell.”
So Saint Peter escorts him to the elevator, and down, down, down he goes into Hell. Now, the doors of the elevator open, and he is in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags. And it’s hot, hot, hot, and the odor is just horrible.
Sweltering hot. Hot and miserable. The Devil comes over to him and smoothly lays his arm around his shoulder.
“I don’t understand,” stammers the politician. “The day before I was here, and there was a golf course and club, and we ate lobster and caviar and danced and had a great time. Now all that’s here is a wasteland full of garbage, and my friends look miserable.”
The Devil looks at the politician, smiles, and says, “Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted for us.”
113
posted on
10/09/2011 2:31:20 AM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
To: altura
Well—I don’t trust anyone who’s not up front—and deceiving people about where you’re from is really weird in my book—especially if you’re from Texas. I’m very proud to be a Texan.
If you don’t know any more than you are admitting about the “Trans Texas Corridor” then there’s not much I can say.
I don’t think Perry is awful—I think that mainly he is just another entrenched politician, and I never did think he was the brightest bulb in the box.
I’m all for shaking up the status quo if we can find people with new ideas and a fresh outlook. Right now, I’m looking at Herman Caine. He’s not perfect—but there was ever only one perfect Man—and we crucified Him, as I recall.
We’ve still got time before the election, and things will happen that might change our entire outlook. We start this election nonsense way too early, IMO—but it is what it is, so we have to deal with it.
Who know’s what will crop up between now and Nov ‘12?
114
posted on
10/09/2011 5:06:08 AM PDT
by
basil
(It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
To: RobertClark
Quit relying on Wikipedia as a source of knowledge. They have it incorrect. At least they source their claims. You say 95% opt in. No other source I've ever seen has figures that high. So how about giving us where your figures come from.
So, either you save for your own retirement, or taxpayers are forced to take care of you?!? I'll take the former.
Then we already have that; it's called a 401K and/or IRA. It's entirely voluntary and a way to save for your retirement. And if you don't do it then tough luck.
The other option is a government tax to fund your retirement. And if that is what you're proposing the how will the Cain 9-9-9 plan fund it? It doesn't say. And if it is to be funded by taxes in addition to the income and sales tax then there goes Cain's claim that his scheme is a tax cut because the FICA tax is eliminated. Apparently it isn't eliminated, it's just called something different.
I studied the Chilean system for nearly a year and wrote my dissertation on the subject. I believe I am more familiar with the system than most Americans, and I state that with confidence.
State what you will. But please answer my question - how is it going to be funded under Cain's 9-9-9 scheme?
115
posted on
10/09/2011 5:11:03 AM PDT
by
SoJoCo
To: MNJohnnie
The major difference is the Chilean system is invested into a private account. And that is true. But the plan still requires a contribution of about 10% of total income for those in the it. Where does that money come from under Cain's proposals? He does away with FICA. His 9-9-9 plan, by his own admission, does not close the deficit. The money for the Chilean system has to come from somewhere. The only possible answer is that in addition to the tax increases under the 9-9-9 plan individuals will still have to pay some sort of FICA to fund their retirement.
116
posted on
10/09/2011 5:26:47 AM PDT
by
SoJoCo
To: Huck
RE: Good to see his idiotic plan being scrutinized
EVERY SINGLE PLAN LAID OUT has to be scrutinized. Obama’s tax-the-millionaires plan ( which does nothing for a stagnant to dead economy) included.
My only problem with the scrutinizers is a lot of them are putting forth posts that either show their ignorance of the 9-9-9 plan (e.g. it adds a VAT, which it does not) or are simply putting forth adjectives of ridicule without even showing how it applies compared to our current tax code.
Absent in most posts of course, are SERIOUS discussions of its merits and demerits.
To: mylife
All fair judgments. Now, about his love for America ~ there are three or four of the candidates who can get fired up about that ~ Herman is one of them.
The Democrats haven't had a candidate like that in several decades.
I don't vote for a President because he's a genius in finance ~ only Democrats imagine you can do that ~ or Paulistas ~ they imagine they can put in Ron Paul and he'll audit the Fed Reserve and that's the end of that. Please note, Ron Paul is neither a nice man nor is he a genius, and he's not on my "Loves America" list either.
We need a guy who is on our side 24/7, and we need to back him up with someone else who is 24/7.
We need people who worked their way up ~ these pukes who were born to wealth, or who "married well" ~ furgeddaboudit!
You'll notice the press barons and the Republican Establishment types are uncomfortable with such folks but I relate well to Cain. His mom and dad focused on education although they had quite pedestrian jobs. I can only imagine what his grandparents did for a living ~ but Cain's parents could have lived in my neighborhood where I grew up ~ with the Indians and the Gypsies, Artists and Tool and Die Makers, cops, mafia soldiers ~ check out the demographics of 46218 someday. It does color my outlook.
Cain started out as a math major in college, as I did, but he kept with it ~ which is more than comendable. That major has an inordinately high drop out rate!
Only Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin rank on that scale ~ my word, the woman worked as a commercial fisherman in Alaska from time to time.
Rick isn't out of Texas and Romney isn't out of the Detroit suburbs. Maybe there's a job for them in the cabinet ~ they're smart guys and know how to prep for a speech ~ that's something cabinet officers have to do a lot of ~ at least 2 or 3 times a week.
But back to the issues, Cain is looking good right now. He's the one to beat. Some other candidate may figure that out and then we'll have a race.
To: basil
basil, I had no intention of deceiving anyone and I am proud to be a lifelong Texan.
It just never occurred to me that someone would go looking to see where I am from.
Those Texas posts popping up all the time just got on my nerves.
I sincerely did not intend to deceive you or anyone about where I’m from, and, as I said, I never dreamed anyone would go checking something like that out.
I think right now we are looking at two people you would call ‘entrenched politicians.’
I prefer the Texan.
119
posted on
10/09/2011 6:59:45 AM PDT
by
altura
(Perry 2012)
To: conservativebuckeye
The Constitution needs several amendments to fix some of the more obvious problems. Sorry you can't handle the truth. But then, that's not really the topic of the thread.
The topic is that the new tea party darling wants to tax tea!
120
posted on
10/09/2011 7:11:47 AM PDT
by
Huck
(NO FEDERAL SALES TAX -- UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES)
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