Posted on 09/26/2011 10:18:11 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Which senator is running this time around?
Is your concern the national sales tax?
Are you aware that America is getting killed right now by having the highest corporate taxes in the G20?
20 years ago America had the lowest, now they have the highest.
No chance. And I dont think she is helping herself in a potential future senator bid either.
You avoided my question. A substantial number of senators went on to be elected president and this is what prompted my question to you.
Is your concern the national sales tax?
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Yes. I don’t like that.
I figure with 9-9-9 it will become 9-9-9-9, Cain could have 8 years and the ninth year, with some other, it could be seriously jacked with.
I am for lower corporate tax and flat tax. I don’t like a national sales tax, especially in combination with an income tax.
If I am misunderstanding, please pitch it to me. I simply don’t trust our politicians with having that door cracked to them.
Also, would that national sales tax be on food/staples, too?
If the next president and congress are serious about immigration, snagging those under the radar won’t be such an enticing draw to a national sales tax.
I may have it all wrong. I’m not the brightest but it is up to them to sell their ideas, explain and convince doubters.
I liked the way Michelle Bachmann used the word “sovereignty”.
Our sovereignty is not just about illegal aliens, it is about growing our government to accommodate them. Nearly half of California’s elementary school aged children are English learners. That equates to hiring twice as many teachers than need be, twice as many schools, twice as many of just about every non-funded government pensioned job.
This foreign invasion is about giving global union bosses more power. More power to tell our government what we can and can not do. Our mayors, City Council, and Governor shouldn’t have to consult with some union boss that wasn’t elected by the people. Our government should be answerable to the people that elected them.
Our sovereignty is about saying no to the United Nations and their sustainable high-rise government owned communities, high-speed rail and nationalizing land.
Our sovereignty is saying no to the United Nations and their taxing Americans and American businesses for their environmental BS.
Saying no to the United Nations when they ask us to provide air power while they invade Libya.
Our sovereignty is about keeping talent and businesses in America and uninvited foreigners out.
I share your concern, but a national sales tax is far more transparent than the other taxes. It hits people in the pocketbook where they can see it and run the numbers.
Couple of things here:
The top rate on the income tax is a flat 9 percent. Think of what that means. Has that rate *ever* in the post FDR era been so low?
That means that people who work harder will be rewarded for doing so. Not only that, but those of modest means will get to keep more of what they have because 9 percent is far lower than the lowest rate.
This, combined with withholding, means that people instantly get more money in their pocket, if they work.
Then, dropping corporate taxes, and a bunch of other stealth taxes, Payroll, etc, what this basically does is give America the most competitive business jurisdiction, this side of Singapore.
Think that’s not going to catch a few eyes.
Now, the other thing. 50 percent of the population has no say in the tax regime, either through not working, or not working enough to pay income taxes in the first place. That’s a problem. This means that they can vote to raise the income tax rate higher, without hurting themselves.
With a sales tax, everyone who makes a purchase ends up paying more for it. They have skin in the game.
I realize your concern is over the liberals jacking up the sales tax, but a liberal will never increase a sales tax. Why? It’s a regressive tax. It hits their constituency harder than any other constituency. The first thing they will try to do is to carve out an exception. If the tax code is worded such that it hits all purchases, then the liberals can be pre-empted.
The other gimmick to watch out for is ‘rebates’. Most jurisdictions that have a sales tax, issues a ‘rebate’. Again, this is because liberals want to do whatever possible to ensure that their constituency is immune to taxation.
It’s a basic fairness issue, that everyone should pay at least something, and that the rate should not be onerous. I say this as a young man, who for many years, has chosen to protest the soiled blood of abortion taxes by keeping his income below the income tax level. I have since relocated to a jurisdiction that does not charge income taxes, as frankly, it would be nice to start getting compensated for my talents.
Perhaps because senators serve for six years and there are only 100 of them? The last senator elected before Mr. Obama was JFK. That was over 50 years ago! We elect governors, vice presidents and generals, for the most part.
I will say the Liberal Mass Media did a character assassination job on her—the same tactics employed against Sarah Palin, and which they will now turn on Herman Cain, just watch. She is NOT our enemy. I wish her well. If she stays in fine, but if she cannot get traction from a number of remaining debates she might want to rethink but this is entirely her decision.
Good riddance to that flake.
In combination, no, but an income tax is about a million times worse than a consumption-based tax.
The Marxist progressive income tax is inherently and infinitely more invasive of privacy, much more costly to administer, discourages savings, etc., and in is general much more subject to abuse, as we have historically seen. Income taxes are an abomination and are antithetical to Freedom.
A man's labor is his property. Income taxes are therefore little more than proportional slavery. With sales taxes, those who consume the most, pay the most tax, which seems to me to be much more fair than taxing someone's income. Income taxes are tyrannical on their face.
Abolishing the federal income tax is a wonderful idea, and any candidate who endorses the notion is on the right track as far as I'm concerned. To my mind, there's just no way a NRST could ever be as diabolocal.
I don't see how those two reasons go to the question of qualifications.
The first thing they will try to do is to carve out an exception
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First, thank you for taking the time to lay that out for me, I sincerely appreciate it. I want to learn.
Now, as you mentioned—carving out exceptions. Can they, is there any protection against that?
Could people who receive benefits be exempted, and even if they couldn’t be exempted—it was tax money given anyhow, so there is nothing gained, right? (though less lost)
BUT, I do see your point— they would suffer having less tax dollars/benefits, if a percentage of that was taken away at pos.
Then, there may be the lower income who don’t quite qualify for benefits but would get an exemption of some sort.
We aren’t making the gains politicians want and they jack up the sales tax, to plug the difference. What prevents them, what protects us?
I admit it all sounds good and tempting, but I am cautious.
I am tired and I don’t think I’m being very clear, even at my best, I’m not very good at this grammar game. :p
I am very interested in this and hope you will answer questions, it is very helpful.
Actually threads on each candidate, where we didn’t attack each other but supported/explained candidates and poked holes in their positions, without being too defensive or too offensive and dragging a another candidate in—would be beautuful!
Well, I had better get to sleep and I will be checking back in the morning, because this election is very important to me, all of us and I want to understand as much as I can. And again, thank you!
Yes, they can carve out exceptions. They can make certain goods exempt, and they can issue ‘rebates’.
Exempting goods, is no different than if the government were to give money to certain businesses and not others. It encourages the overproduction of certain goods outside of supply and demand. Yes, it’s often used as an argument in favor of reducing the costs of food, but I don’t believe the market distortions created by said policy are beneficial.
If you are going to do it, best to do it for all goods, it makes tracking and administration far simpler without bad market distortions.
The rebate issue is a bigger one. Since the government cannot track who pays what (which is actually a huge feature), the sales tax actually protects the consumer from hostile government intervention and is far less intrusive. The government may track what is being bought, but cannot track who makes the purchase.
The rebate is complete social engineering aimed at mollifying the voting base of liberals. This is why they love introducing a rebate, because it’s a direct infusion of taxpayer dollars to their supporters and only their supporters. The argument goes something like this, that because the policy is regressive that the regressive policy is mitigated. The result is that it opens up for massive abuse and again ‘means testing’ increases both administration costs and for the trifecta, actually increases the government burden as all they are doing is pushing money around and skimming off the top.
So watch for this, you’ll see if the 9,9,9 becomes a reality, you will see liberals pushing for a rebate.
What prevents the politicians from jacking up the tax? It’s a hugely visible change. There are jurisdictions in North America that have actually defeated sales tax exemptions and taxation increases, through nothing more than the will of the people. And I’m not talking about staunch conservative jurisdictions.
As I said, the tax is very transparent, and politicians fiddling with the rate tend not to stay in power.
I’ll be blunt. Is a sales tax + income tax ideal? No. TX has it right by only charging sales tax. I believe strongly that any tax cut is a good tax cut, and Cain’s plan is the best plan out there.
Is it perfect? No. The biggest problem is the erosion of state sovereignty associated with the nationwide sales tax. Personally, I’d prefer no income tax first, but Cain’s the best plan out there and his plan will be beneficial for America both in the short and long run.
I am glad you have found the discussion helpful. Blessings sir.
This is roughly where I am.
I like the idea of 9-9-9 because it's bold but I dread what it would end up when implemented. You almost have to back it up with a constitutional amendment... Well, actually, the Cut, Cap, Balance version of a Balanced Budget Amendment would be sufficient to protect those rates since increasing taxes requires two-thirds supermajorities under that amendment.
I guess it is more like Senators have won a state-wide election (the best you can do before you win the Presidency)..
But that doesn’t touch on the issue of qualifications. Name recognition, yes but qualifications, no.
Ms Coffin suggests that when Perry showed his true liberal colors by playing the race card and accusing everyone who disagreed with his coddling illegal aliens “heartless” all the other candidates,except Cain, suffered a loss of popularity.
The quote is a bit tongue in cheek but Bachman IS unfortunately,like Perry-but not unfortunately,a victim of “The Cain Mutiny” against the elite GOP RINO establishment.
The minute she stepped in I thought she was the anti Palin plant from the RNC.
I think she was just not bright enough to realize the blue bloods of the Republican party were trying to use another female, nearly unknown, to take away a true conservative female's thunder.
The entrenched leaders of the Republican Party are so set in their ways they think they can get away with these old tactics so they can get their RINO candidate nominated. They are afraid of what is currently happening but are not smart enough to understand the depth and breadth of America's anger for our slide into Communism.
Bachmann is a dnc plant? Lol yer funny
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