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Any FReeper Carpenters? (Professional / Amateur) VANITY ALERT
None ^ | 8/31/2003 | me

Posted on 08/31/2003 9:18:53 PM PDT by Bobby777

Knowing there's a vast array of talents among you guys (and gals) out there, I'l like your opinions ... a little change of pace for a couple moments ...

I'd like to (possibly) finish my basement as reasonably inexpensive as possible. About 1/2 already has sheetrock and the concrete is perfect with moisture barrier installed underneath. No leaks, zero. House is about 9 years old.

I know along the unfinished walls they usually use a 2x4 frame (or metal) and then hang the sheetrock on that. So here are the questions:

1) I HATE the idea of nailing into my perfect concrete. Is there an alternative system that doesn't require nailing into the concrete? I once had a guy drill and put in bolt anchors but I'm sure that's time-consuming and more costly.

2) Walls: Can you use an air-powered staple gun (like 9/16") to hang sheet rock or just go with the traditional nails for best results?

3) Ceiling: Has 1x2x12 floor joists from upper floor. Lights are installed, but my sheet rock guy hates doing ceilings. So I'm looking at alternatives for ceilings, again watching the cost and want a halfway-decent appearance.

4) Floor: I might be putting an (idle) pool table down there. The weight my be hard on carpet but what would you guys (and gals) recommend for a floor? carpet, vinyl tiles, one of those interlocking wood kits, what?

thanks in advance for your replies.


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To: Bobby777
I'm certainly no carpenter, but I love to remodel so I have a little experience with it. If you have a relatively clean concrete floor, consider the faux painting as ETERNAL WARMING mentioned. I also love this look.

Several years ago I was about to move into a house and had to decide what to do with the floor. We had ripped up the old carpet because it was so nasty, leaving only the concrete foundation. We couldn't decide what to put down (carpet vs. tile vs. wood), so I started experimenting with paint and burlap. By the time I was done, I had somehow managed to achieve a floor that had a "warm feel" to it and looked like brown crumpled leather, believe it or not. Way cool! And with a few well-placed rugs, it looked like I had spent a lot more money on that floor than I really had.

If you're interested tell me and I'll elaborate on the method used.

Regarding the sheetrock, use sheetrock screws and a rechargable drill. My Ryobi 9 volt has been sufficient to get the job done, but on several occasions I wished I'd been working with a 12 volt drill. Just whatever you do, don't use nails. Nails are easier to work with in the short run but the screws absolutely will not budge! By using sheetrock screws, you'll never have to mess with touching up the sheetrock when a nail pops loose.
41 posted on 08/31/2003 10:50:12 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Wolverine
yes, makes sense ... amazing the stuff a guy can learn on one thread ... I've pulled all the best ideas onto a document ... I've got all this unused space ... time to make use of it ...

haven't mentioned my thoughts on the attic ... LOL ... thanks to all who have helped so far ...
42 posted on 08/31/2003 10:51:39 PM PDT by Bobby777 (All right-thinking people are sick & tired of being told all right thinking people are sick & tired!)
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To: Bobby777
 
Radiant Barriers

Radiant barrier installations date back to the 1930s. They are a potentially inexpensive way to protect a building from undesirable heat gain. These thin, reflective foil sheets exhibit low emissivity (radiant energy transmission) and under appropriate conditions can block radiant heat transfer. The radiant barrier is usually installed in the attic to reduce heat flow through the roof assembly into the house.

When properly installed, it reduces summer attic overheating and saves on air conditioning expenses. Using radiant barriers to reduce space heating losses has had mixed test results, however. In some cases, they have even increased heating costs.

How Radiant Barrier Systems Work
A radiant barrier reduces heat transfer. Heat travels from a warm area to a cool area by conduction, convection, and radiation. Heat flows by conduction from a hotter material to a colder material when the two materials are in direct physical contact. Heat transfer by natural convection occurs when a liquid or gas is heated, becomes less dense, and rises. Thermal radiation, or radiant heat, travels in a straight line away from a hot surface and heats any object in its path.

When sunshine heats a roof, most of the heat conducts through the exterior roofing materials to the inside surface of the roof sheathing. Heat then transfers by radiation across the attic space to the next material, either the top of the attic insulation or the attic floor. A radiant barrier, properly installed in one of many locations between the roof surface and the attic floor, will significantly reduce radiant heat flow.

Thermal insulation on the attic floor resists the flow of heat through the ceiling into the living space below. The rate at which insulation resists this flow determines the insulation's R-value. The amount of thermal insulation affects the potential radiant barrier energy savings. For example, installing a radiant barrier in an attic that already has high levels of insulation (R- 30 or above) would result in much lower energy savings than an attic insulated at a low level (R-11 or less).

All radiant barriers have a reflective foil that blocks radiant heat transfer. In an attic, a radiant barrier that faces an air space can block up to 95% of the heat radiating down from a hot roof. Only a single, thin, reflective surface is necessary to produce this reduction in radiant heat transfer. Additional layers of foil do little more to reduce the remaining radiant heat flow.

Conventional types of insulation consist of fibers or cells that trap air or contain a gas to retard heat conduction. These types of insulation reduce conductive and radiant heat transfer at a rate determined by their R-value. Radiant barriers reduce only radiant heat transfer.

There is no current method for assigning an R-value to radiant barriers. The reduction in heat flow achieved by the installation of a radiant barrier depends on a number of factors, such as ventilation rates, ambient air temperatures, geographical location, amount of roof solar gains, and the amount of conventional insulation present.

Several factors affect the cost-effectiveness of installing a radiant barrier. You should examine the performance and cost savings of at least three potential insulation options: adding additional conventional insulation, installing a radiant barrier, and adding both conventional insulation and a radiant barrier.

Selection Criteria
First, you should determine if the radiant barrier will be effective in your climate. Radiant barriers tend to offer a much lower potential for energy savings in colder climates. The reasons for this will be discussed in a later section.

Although emittance, or emissivity, is the most important property of a radiant barrier, most barriers on the market today have the same emittance values (between 0.03 to 0.05). Therefore you should consider other characteristics (strength, flammability, availability, and cost) before you choose a particular brand of radiant barrier.

Tensile strength, or resistance to tearing, is an important property of radiant barriers, especially for the "do-it-yourself" installation. The most effective way to test brand strength is to obtain samples and try to tear them by hand. Some brands are nearly indestructible, while others tear easily. A barrier that tears easily may rip at fastening points. The types that are least susceptible to tearing usually have a woven mesh between two sheets of foil. This mesh is often comprised of fiberglass thread.

Be aware that not all mesh provides adequate strength. Loosely woven mesh tears more easily than tightly woven mesh. An alternative to mesh is the "bubble-pack" radiant barrier. This has a polyethylene air pack (typically found as packaging material) sandwiched between two layers of foil. It is almost as strong as a mesh radiant barrier.

You should also check the flammability rating of any radiant barrier you are considering. Although aluminum foil is not flammable, other materials that make up a radiant barrier may be. Plastics, untreated Kraft paper, and some adhesives burn. When you install a radiant barrier in the attic, choose one that has a Uniform Building Code (UBC) Class I, or National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Class A, flammability rating.

Installation
You may retrofit radiant barriers or install them in new construction. There is a variety of installation options for radiant barriers. Traditionally, in new construction, you drape the radiant barrier, foil-face down, across the tops of the roof framing before applying the roof sheathing. The barrier droops between the supports, leaving a 1.5 to 2.0 inch air space between it and the roof sheathing.

Some builders prefer to attach the reflective insulation directly onto the roof sheathing prior to installing the sheathing. Foil-faced plywood panels are now available; they may be used adjacent to an airspace to accomplish about the same result within the same installation time. The roof shingle industry is even looking into laminating radiant barrier material onto shingles.

You may also install a radiant barrier on the underside of the roof supports. This is a popular retrofit technique. For single-sided radiant barriers, remember to orient the reflective face downward, towards the attic, to minimize the effect of dust accumulation. Studies have shown that dust accumulation on radiant barriers can significantly reduce their effectiveness.

You can install a radiant barrier on top of attic floor insulation in both retrofits and new construction, however, this application is more susceptible to dust accumulation. Placing the barrier on top of attic floor insulation may also trap moisture in some locales.

In all radiant barrier systems, the radiant barrier must be directly adjacent to an air space. When you use a single-sided radiant barrier, the reflective, or shiny, side of the radiant barrier should face downward. This reduces the dust accumulation on the shiny surface that causes a drop in efficiency. Many manufacturers produce double-faced radiant barriers, which have foil on both sides. Although this does not make the barrier significantly more effective, it does eliminate the facing question. Usually, double-faced barriers cost little more than single-faced barriers.

How Effective are Radiant Barriers?
As noted above, radiant barrier systems successfully reduce heat gain. During the summer, an attic radiant barrier, combined with existing R-19 attic insulation, may reduce heat gain through the ceiling from 16-42%. For single- story houses, typically about 15-25% of the summer cooling load is due to ceiling heat gain. The heat gain reduction from a radiant barrier installation will usually result in a total cooling load savings of 2-10%&151; possibly as high as 15% in attics insulated to R-11 or less. Higher savings occur when retrofitting less efficient buildings. Buildings with little to no attic insulation and a high volume of attic ventilation typically provide the most dramatic energy savings from a radiant barrier. The hotter and sunnier the climate is, the more beneficial the radiant barrier installation becomes.

In new or remodel situations, installing a radiant barrier may reduce the cooling load sufficiently to allow installation of a smaller capacity air conditioning system.

You can also use recent utility bills to estimate annual radiant barrier savings. For each summer month you typically operate your air conditioner, subtract an amount equal to your minimum spring or fall bill (when no heating or cooling is needed). Add the savings for each of the summer months to obtain an annual cooling cost savings. Compare this annual cost savings to the expected cost of the radiant barrier installation to determine how many years it will take to pay for the installation.

The decision to install a radiant barrier system is not always based on a simple payback calculation. In cases where spaces adjacent to the attic overheat during the day, installing a radiant barrier system may be the most economical option. By lowering the room temperature a few degrees, you may avoid the expense of reconfiguring or installing an enlarged cooling system.

Because radiant barriers redirect radiant heat back through the roofing materials, shingle temperatures may increase between 1o to 10 F. This increase does not appear to exceed the roof shingle design criteria. The overall effect on roof life, if any, is not known.

43 posted on 08/31/2003 10:53:20 PM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Nita Nupress
yeah, I've got a few bubbles where the sheet-rock nails are popping loose ... the screws sound much better, thanks ...
44 posted on 08/31/2003 10:54:49 PM PDT by Bobby777 (All right-thinking people are sick & tired of being told all right thinking people are sick & tired!)
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To: Bobby777
If you want to do it right you should use 1 x3's or 1 x4 furring strips attached to the concrete block with masonary nails in the mortar (fast way) or use a drill with cheap plastic mollys and screws. Than you can cover the walls any way you want to. Drop ceilings are easy to install. And the floor is up to you, carpet or tile.
45 posted on 08/31/2003 11:13:42 PM PDT by John Lenin (Cowards die many times before their deaths, The valiant never taste of death but once.)
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To: Bobby777
Foil Product Companies
 
Great product another great product
 
Photos

46 posted on 08/31/2003 11:14:24 PM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Bobby777
For sheetrock I use Liquid Nails (super glue comes in a tube and handy dispenser) with a few sheet rock self tapping screws to hold in place.
47 posted on 08/31/2003 11:15:08 PM PDT by spokeshave (Adjusting tag line again....GO ARNIE....)
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To: Wolverine
BTT
48 posted on 09/01/2003 2:57:23 AM PDT by jokar (Beware the White European Male Christian theological complex !!)
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To: Bobby777
Wood or steel, which ever you like. Personally I'd just get a 90* drill adapter and use wood studs. Put the holes for utilities wherever you want them.
49 posted on 09/01/2003 7:40:54 AM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Bobby777
Bump
50 posted on 09/02/2003 10:07:19 AM PDT by Pest
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