VANITY: Airmen on Navy ships?

Political debate board ^

[CheezyD]

VANITY: My first vanity post... I'm looking for corroboration that members of the military in branches other than the Navy serve on Navy vessels. I was defending Bush's landing on the Abraham Lincoln on a political debate board and indicated that his doing so lifted the morale of sailors and airmen on the ship. A leftist whacko on the board is now claiming I cannot be a vet (which I am) because a "real veteran" wouldn't claim there would be airmen on an aircraft carrier. Any links would be appreciated. I've also attached the link to the debate forum if anyone here would like to stop by. Can't have too many conservative voices. Seems like the lefties are bringing in their friends from "D..." well, you know where.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Why should you care what a leftist wackjob says? Their nitpicky response about what knowledge you "should" have to be a "real" veteran is just a diversionary tactic to put you on the defensive. Screw 'em.

[Tom Bombadil]

Their nitpicky response about what knowledge you "should" have to be a "real" veteran is just a diversionary tactic to put you on the defensive. Screw 'em.

Bears repeating.

[Wonder Warthog]

"A leftist whacko on the board is now claiming I cannot be a vet (which I am) because a "real veteran" wouldn't claim there would be airmen on an aircraft carrier."

Tell the twit that he is mis-understanding the meaning of the term "airmen", and that you were referring to the difference between the Navy personnel who fly the planes, and the Navy personnel who drive the ships (which is, I suspect, the case).

[Steel Wolf]

'Airmen' is a pretty common civilian term for aviator. A 'downed airmen', for instance, is a generally understood term, even though it's an officer and not an enlisted guy. Most civilians get confused pretty quick if you don't translate military speak into English.

If these guys wanna get technical about a naval aviator not being an airman, then good for them. Many major units and commands will have representatives from other services. There are some Air Force personnel in my unit, and I'm in the Army, for instance. Larger commands, intel stations, and other specialized fields can be more joint service than not. As to aircraft carriers, I've never been on one and don't know, but would be suprised if every swinging Richard on board was Navy / Marine. Any Navy guys out there know the deal on this.

[CTOCS]

Been on 5 different carriers...99.9% of all personnel are Navy/Marine..."Airmen" is a common term that represents "all" personnel that fly/support aircraft...However, the Navy calls them "Airdales" instead of "Airmen".

[SolutionsOnly]

I was in Naval Aviation. There are only Navy and Marine aviators flying off off Naval ships. 'Airmen' implies 'Air force' and no, there are no Air Force pilots flying off carriers. Perhaps they may deploy as observers, but not to fly. For starters, Air force aircraft cannot endure carrier operations - their airframes are simply not rugged enough. You'll never see an F-15 or F-16 on a carrier - to attempt a landing would result in lots of little pieces. The last aircraft used by both the Navy nd the Air Force was the F-4 Phantom - originally designed for the Navy and then later adopted by the Air Force.

In the Navy , 'airmen' are referred to as 'airdales' - I don't how that came to be.

[SolutionsOnly]

you don't 'drive' ships - you 'sail' them. :-)

[Wonder Warthog]

"..you don't 'drive' ships - you 'sail' them. :-)

'Twas a "tongue in cheek" comment.

[CTOCS]

You're right about the airframes...They build them differently to support the mission/purpose...Remember the F14 when it first came out. The Airforce morphed it into the F111. Saw one of the first ones at Eglin Field back in the 70's...

Airforce aircraft have no beefed up superstructure, no folding wings, no tailhooks, etc...

[Non-Sequitur]

you don't 'drive' ships - you 'sail' them.

Slang term. Ask anyone who has stood an underway OOD watch and they'll usually refer to it as driving the ship. I drove destroyers in and out of Charleston for almost 8 years.

[CTOCS]

Technically correct...However, we used to refer to all ship captains as "Boat Drivers"!!

BTW, what's the difference between a ship and a boat?

[FRMAG]

Its quite common for other services to have a presence on a naval vessel especially a carrier. In my career in the Army I went to sea more than once.

What you are seeing are people of sister services who are assigned as liaison between the naval types and their sister services. This is necessary as the services at base use jargon which often requires translation.

The only service that is the master of CAS (Close Air Support) is the Marine Corps and they practice it all the time.

When either the Navy or the Corps needs to provide CAS or rescue/medivac for a sister service the liaison is a vital link in the process.

Yes you will see uniforms of all the services on all the service bases. For example, when I was stationed at Fort Hood, the Army had no meterological assets to speak of and a heavy flight commitment from the 1st CAV et al. THe weather prediction angle was handled by an Air Force MET detachment permanantly assigned to and billeted at Fort Hood.

At some bases you will also see foreign uniforms for example German or Isreli.

Its called combined arms teamwork.

[Flyer]

BTW, what's the difference between a ship and a boat?

Isn't the rule of thumb that if it can be carried aboard another vessel, it's a boat?

[CTOCS]

Correct...A "ship" can carry "boats"...

Ultimate insult to a fleet sailor is to call his vessel a "boat"...

[harpseal]

First it is not unusual to have army or airforce personel serving on Navy vessels as liasons and in some other specialized roles especially those that furtehr operational integration. However so what GWB has also been to Army and Air Force Bases, and addressed Marines and Coast Guardsmen.

[meisterbrewer]

This is easy. The Navy actually has a rank called Airman. The first three ranks for individuals in the Airman group are Airman Recruit, Airman Apprentice, and Airman.

See here:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Not a veteran myself, but that doesn't mean my uncle the Rear Admiral didn't serve his last ten years in Arizona.

[A Simple Soldier]

If your wisenheimer friend wants to be so technical, point him this way

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html

Tell him thanks for playing and to move on.

[CTOCS]

The exception to the rule is the submarine...They have always been called "boats"...Can't remember the last time I saw a ship carrying one of them around!!!