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To: ksen
because she[Arwen] is the reason Aragorn is doing the things he is doing.

Huh? Aragorn does the things he does so that Evil will not triumph over Good. Jackson seems to be incapable of allowing this theme to be the underlying principle.

Why does Jackson have Aragorn convince Theoden to ride out rather then cower in some caves when the battle looks to be lost? Thanks to Gandalf's earlier intervention, Theoden doesn't need to be told how to act. Why could Jackson not depict Theoden be the valiant, courageous leader that Tolkien produced? Because Jackson doesn't want Theoden to be seen that way. God forbid we should have too many decent men in one movie.

33 posted on 12/26/2002 11:23:06 AM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Why does Jackson have Aragorn convince Theoden to ride out rather then cower in some caves when the battle looks to be lost? Thanks to Gandalf's earlier intervention, Theoden doesn't need to be told how to act. Why could Jackson not depict Theoden be the valiant, courageous leader that Tolkien produced? Because Jackson doesn't want Theoden to be seen that way. God forbid we should have too many decent men in one movie.

The thing about the movie is that Aragorn, Theoden, Gimli (less so), and Legolas all go through periods of doubt, uncertainty, and valiance. And never at the same time. I guess it's just to "develop" these characters that audiences all over the world have accepted already. There's little left needed to develop, IMO, except maybe Aragorn as a true King.

Gandalf has returned from the dead. In the books, the characters are overjoyed, and never lose faith again. If Gandalf says he'll be at Helm's Deep on the morning of the fifth day, you can bet that he'll be there. Even the movie characters forget this and go through all sorts of doubt. The only ones I can accept this in is Theoden and the men of Rohan. The arrival of the Elves should have heartened them, but we still go through the agaonizing. Jackson is overplaying his hand and it wastes time better spent on characters like Treebeard and Faramir.

34 posted on 12/26/2002 12:00:34 PM PST by BradyLS
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Huh? Aragorn does the things he does so that Evil will not triumph over Good. Jackson seems to be incapable of allowing this theme to be the underlying principle.

All are battling evil. I think the characters who confront it most directly are Frodo and Sam, who endure Sauron's tempting influence constantly in the form of the Ring and its effect on those around them.

Though not as clear in the movies, Aragorn loves Arwen and Elrond decreed that no man less than the King of Gondor (AND Arnor, in the books) will wed her. Aragorn sees his destiny before him and is rushing to it. If he succeeds, all else pales before Arwen, who must accept a mortal doom. If he fails, nothing else matters after the loss of Arwen. He is battling Evil, certainly, but Arwen is his over-riding desire. Like I said, it's sometimes hard to tell that from the films.

In the books, Aragorn recognizes the events that unfold around him as signs of a destiny being fulfilled and gains in confidence. In the movies, he's still a 20th century man plagued by doubt up to the eve of the battle of Helm's Deep. Will he still be that sort of man when ROTK opens?

35 posted on 12/26/2002 12:15:29 PM PST by BradyLS
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Huh? Aragorn does the things he does so that Evil will not triumph over Good.

Here is a passage from the Appendix:

‘In the days that followed[seeing Arwen for the first time] Aragorn fell silent, and his mother perceived that some strange thing had befallen him; and at last he yielded to her questions and told her of the meeting in the twilight of the trees.
‘ "My son," said Gilraen, "your aim is high, even for the descendant of many kings. For this lady is the noblest and fairest that now walks the earth. And it is not fit that mortal should wed with the Elf-kin."
"Yet we have some part in that kinship," said Aragorn, "if the tale of my forefathers is true that I have learned."
‘ "It is true," said Gilraen, "but that was long ago and in another age of this world, before our race was diminished. Therefore I am afraid; for without the good will of Master Elrond the Heirs of Isildur will soon come to an end. But I do not think that you will have the good will of Elrond in this matter."
' "Then bitter will my days be, and I will walk in the wild alone," said Aragorn.

I may be misinterpreting what is being said here, but it seems to me that when Aragorn found out he probably would not be able to have Arwen as his wife then he decided to spend the rest of his days alone in the wilds.

It isn’t until he finds out there may be a chance for taking Arwen as his wife that Aragorn begins the battle against Sauron.

But there will be no choice before Arwen, my beloved, unless you, Aragorn, Arathorn's son, come between us and bring one of us, you or me, to a bitter parting beyond the end of the world……..
'Then Aragorn took leave lovingly of Elrond; and the next day he said farewell to his mother, and to the house of Elrond, and to Arwen, and he went out into the wild. For nearly thirty years he laboured in the cause against Sauron; and he became a friend of Gandalf the Wise, from whom he gained much wisdom.

36 posted on 12/26/2002 12:22:53 PM PST by ksen
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