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To: Argh; ecurbh
Hullo Argh! - This song has got you bugged still eh? Hmmm. The song has really grown on me... I things the words sound like his, methinks. I can't picture how it will be used in the movie yet, but I haven't seen the movie! - We shall see if it fits in the time and place it is used. (in 16 days 13 hours 18 min... ;~D)

I disagree with your "reason" they enhanced Arwen. I think to say it was simply to sell tickets or weakly to kowtow to the PC crowd is knee-jerk Free Republicskpeak. I don't think that is the reason. I just don't. No one went to see this film because Arwen was in it. No one. I think the reason was to highlight and bring out a love story that is nice and beautiful. Women did not go to see this film to see Arwen, but I have talked to men who enjoyed her quite a bit.

And, if you read it again, after the movie, Tolkien's words were in the story more than you might think. They may have been moved to a different place in the story, but upon reading it again after the film, I was surprised at how many times I recognized dialogue that was in the film.

On your serious complaint, I am not sure I even see it. How, in your opinion was the story made tedious?
29 posted on 12/01/2002 10:52:27 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Correction: ...I think the words sound like his...
30 posted on 12/01/2002 10:54:22 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog; Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy; The Iguana
Hi Miss Hair!! To try to answer your question about why I found it tedious would require a scene by scene, word by word, facial expression by facial expression (or lack thereof) analysis of the whole thing (not that it was ALL tedious). I'm not saying everyone should find it so: I did, as did some of the people I know. I think it was a matter of detail, especially some of those left out or of necessity changed.

I thought I was going to die of boredom during Elrond's Council, which was one of the more fascinating chapters in the books. I thought most of the opening exposition of the movie should have been held until Gandalf's talk with Frodo in Bag End and Elrond's Council, respectively, keeping the intriguing mystery of the Ring mysterious as in the books. Some kind of brief concept of the time and space could have replaced that long exposition for neophytes to be not totally at sea. I found Lothlorien wrongheaded and Galadriel a dead loss (why does anyone hire Cate anyway?) Moria, on the other hand, was well done. Strider should have been more mature and rugged looking, instead of so cute. In the books Gandalf and Sam were both "types": Gandalf came off very well, but Sam ended up being mostly a cipher. Oh, hell, this can go on and on and ON and in each case others will just plain disagree and fair enough.

Iguana (I feel terrible addressing you that way) hits my situation right on the nose with the following:

For many years I was heartily opposed to the idea of a film adaptation of LOTR for the simple reason that I didn't think anyone could do it justice - or even begin to. Part of that was the sheer difficulty in getting much fo such a gargantuan work to the screen; part of it was the technology needed to convey so many supernatural elements; and part related to the likelihood of Hollywood's bowlderizing and crass commercialistic tendencies making a mush of things if the first two obstacles were surmounted.

Having said all that, I have to confess that while not perfect (in my eyes), Peter Jackson et al have probably done as a good a job in overcoming these obstacles to lens a film project reasonably faithful to the books as one could possibly hope for while retaining any hope of commercial success (or at least of recouping the massive costs).

I used to argue while in college (1968 to 1972) that the only way they could do justice to a movie version was to do a whole series of Disney cartoon movies. Special effects were relatively primitive back then without today's computer technology. (Interestingly, go back to a 1955 science fiction movie called "The Forbidden Planet", where a lot of the effects are recognizably Disney cartoons, but off topic I go...). I still think a lack of detail, as well as the wrong kind of detail, paradoxically ruined it for me, but there was no way around that given the understandable constraints. With me they weren't likely to win, and they didn't. I won't be spending $13 Canadian (that's aboot 18.5 cents U.S., Miss Hair :^)) on each of the next two, I'll wait longer to get them on the movie channels around here.

Miss Hair, you write: "I think the reason was to highlight and bring out a love story that is nice and beautiful." I still think I'm right, FreeRepublicspeak or not. As for Arwen, I enjoy looking at Miss Tyler as much as the next red-blooded male. But who needs the love story jammed in their faces? The books would have been far worse with more of it, and there was almost none, thank God and JRRT! But you don't want to hear my opinion of romance in fiction! To say it's not entertaining is as politely as I can express it. Pornography without having the guts to be actually pornographic is what others might say.:^) I will NEVER understand the entertainment value of two movie stars kissing!

I thought the Faramir-Eowyn scene in the books was embarrassing despite Tolkien's obvious efforts, and the books downplaying potential Aragorn-Arwen mush muck while still giving us the idea was decent and, actually, rather inspired. (The only romantic movie I really ever enjoyed was "Casablanca". Natch!)

So I still don't see a reason for the Arwen enhancement, other than what I suggested. The importance to character development of a weakened Frodo valiantly standing up to the terrifying Nazgul on his own at the Fords was vital, and there was just NO reason to have that role performed by a tough Elf broad! No matter how yummy!!

36 posted on 12/01/2002 3:20:12 PM PST by Argh
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