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To: GOPcapitalist
Ah, but you fail to read on. Later, Lincoln said that the PURPOSE of labor was that every man should start his own farm/small business. Labor was a starting point. Moreover, Lincoln soon modified these views (note the date) and while he always "stood up" for labor, he also, as an attorney, represented banks and railroads in numerous cases which he won. You might look at some of his court cases to see somewhat contradictory arguments.

With Calhoun, however, his purpose was not emancipation but eventually the quasi-enslavement of free whites. Read carefully his "Disquisitions" (since I went through this on another thread, I'm not going to start up again with new quotations) and you'll see he in fact was, as Richard Hofstadter called him, the "Marx of the Master Class."

737 posted on 11/18/2002 4:46:01 AM PST by LS
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To: LS
I think that this is the passage you are looking for:

Again, as has already been said, there is not of necessity any such thing as the free hired laborer being fixed to that condition for life. Many independent men everywhere in these States a few years back in their lives were hired laborers. The prudent, penniless beginner in the world labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself, then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him. This is the just and generous and prosperous system which opens the way to all, gives hope to all, and consequent energy and progress and improvement of condition to all. No men living are more worthy to be trusted than those who toil up from poverty; none less inclined to take or touch aught which they have not honestly earned. Let them beware of surrendering a political power which they already possess, and which if surrendered will surely be used to close the door of advancement against such as they and to fix new disabilities and burdens upon them till all of liberty shall be lost.

Doesn't sound very socialist to me. But then I'm not a raving Lincoln loather like GOPcapitalist.

742 posted on 11/18/2002 5:02:11 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: LS
Ah, but you fail to read on.

No. Not really. Reading on only reveals Lincoln's elaboration upon the core theory of value he set forth about labor.

Moreover, Lincoln soon modified these views (note the date)

No. Not really. As far as his writings indicate, they were with him to the end of his career and most likely life. He references a labor theory of value in his speeches throughout his career, as is the case in this excerpt from 1861:

"I have long thought that if there be any article of necessity which can be produced at home with as little or nearly the same labor as abroad, it would be better to protect that article. Labor is the true standard of value." - Abraham Lincoln, February 15, 1861

You would know this if you were familiar with Lincoln or had an interest in understanding his economic beliefs, but obviously you do not.

and while he always "stood up" for labor, he also, as an attorney, represented banks and railroads in numerous cases which he won.

Representing railroad companies in no way precludes espousal of the labor theory of value, nor does it make one a laissez faire capitalist. If that were so Enron's top congressional recipient and lackey Sheila Jackson Lee would be the biggest freemarketeer in Washington.

You might look at some of his court cases to see somewhat contradictory arguments.

What records remain appear in Lincoln's multi-volume collected works. After a fairly extensive search of those works for references to labor and tariff issues, it appears to be one of the few things he consistently stuck to in his political career.

and you'll see he in fact was, as Richard Hofstadter called him, the "Marx of the Master Class."

In some regards that argument could be made and I do believe Hofstadter makes a decent case. Interestingly enough in that same book a chapter later, Hofstadter is one of the many historians to point out that your punching bag George Fitzhugh was a crackpot fringer. You have said otherwise. Do you agree with Hofstadter on this?

807 posted on 11/18/2002 12:01:17 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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