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To: andy_card
"Nationalism and Socialism are two philosophies at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum."

That statement just goes to show how wrong you can be. There is no inherent contradiction whatever between nationalism and socialism. Marxist communism was internationalist, but there is nothing inherent in in the notion of socialism that prevents it from being nationalistic. The whole idea of there being a generic something called "fascism", (with a little "f"), as distinguished from the specifically Italian "Fascism" is basically just a leftist propaganda tool. But, if you insist on a general notion of "fascism" then I think it should be defined as follows: a fascist state is a totalitarian socialist regime not explicitly based on the Marxist model and nationalist rather than internalist in its character and aims. Sweden is probably the only extant fascist state among the industrialized western nations, but many others are a close approximation.

564 posted on 11/15/2002 9:24:49 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
There is no inherent contradiction whatever between nationalism and socialism.

Yes there is. Socialism is based on self-identity by socioeconomic class, whereas nationalism promotes self-identity by nation or race. The two are mutually exclusive. They can and have been combined, by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc., but never without contradiction and intellectual dishonesty. In Hitler's case, if you look at the historical record, you'll see he dropped the socialist plank of his platform after he offed Ernst Roehm in '34.

The whole idea of there being a generic something called "fascism", (with a little "f"), as distinguished from the specifically Italian "Fascism" is basically just a leftist propaganda tool.

What are you talking about? I made no mention of "fascism", which I agree is one of the most over-used and diluted words in the English language. Nazism certainly coopted many elements of Italian Fascism, but the two were not one and the same, and I made no effort to use the latter term.

But, if you insist on a general notion of "fascism"

Huh? Where do I insist on a general notion of fascism?

a fascist state is a totalitarian socialist regime not explicitly based on the Marxist model and nationalist rather than internalist in its character and aims. Sweden is probably the only extant fascist state among the industrialized western nations, but many others are a close approximation.

That claim is silly. Fascism, which in theory has many comendable components, is based of popular identification by industry, nation and corporation. It is derivative of socialism, but very different. We can debate Fascism, if you want, rather than Nazism, but there's got to be some limit to our rambling.

Sweden is probably the only extant fascist state among the industrialized western nations, but many others are a close approximation.

Huh?

605 posted on 11/16/2002 9:44:52 AM PST by andy_card
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