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To: GOPcapitalist
That you purport to have been quoting a non-existant post 268 in post 189? No Walt, that isn't rational at all for you to do, and that is precisely my point.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Are you saying that post # 268 in this thread doesn't exist?

In that post I clearly ascribed a desire to burn the Constitution to William Lloyd Garrison. He called it a pact with the Devl because it allowed Slavery.

Your trying to win some off-the-wall debating point, I suppose something along the lines of: "Aha! Walt wants to burn the Constitution!" is just cracked. I won't even dignify it with an answer.

The context of this thread was very plain that I was quoting Garrison. I don't want to burn the Constitution. I'm the one who keeps throwing up his hand and swearing to defend it against all enemies foreign and domestic, while you are the one with "hateful heart and deceitful speech."

Who am I quoting there?

Walt

360 posted on 11/14/2002 11:46:07 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
This is getting beyond ridiculous.

On your account, yes it is Walt.

Are you saying that post # 268 in this thread doesn't exist?

No. I am saying that at the time you made your comment in post 189 that post 268 did not yet exist. Therefore you could not have been referencing post 268 in post 189. Got it?

Your trying to win some off-the-wall debating point,

No Walt. I am simply trying to establish your elusive opinion on the matter.

The context of this thread was very plain that I was quoting Garrison.

No Walt, it wasn't. Post 268 DID NOT EXIST at the time you posted 189.

361 posted on 11/14/2002 12:00:09 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa; GOPcapitalist
A little bio on Garrison.

------------------------------------------

William Lloyd Garrison

Born in 1805, in Newburyport, Massachusetts, Garrison, from a white family of moderate means, became an apprentice to the editor of a newspaper when he was only thirteen. Soon after his apprenticeship ended, he and a young printer named Isaac Knapp bought their own newspaper, the Free Press. One of their regular contributors was John Greenleaf Whittier, later to become known as the poet laureate of abolition. Garrison's dedication to the abolition of slavery was already apparent; on the fiftieth anniversary of the country, Garrison said, "There is one theme which should be dwelt upon, till our whole country is free from the curse--SLAVERY." The paper lasted only six months; when it folded, Garrison went to Boston, where he worked as a printer and editor until he was offered a position in Baltimore, as co-editor with Benjamin Lundy of the Genius of Universal Emancipation.

While in Baltimore, he was sued for libel by the owner of a ship that transported slaves. Garrison had called him a highway robber and a murderer. He was convicted and sentenced to six months in jail; he served only seven weeks, when money was donated to pay his fine.

On January 1, 1831, Garrison, back in Boston, published the first issue of The Liberator, the conclusion of his editorial left no doubt as to his intentions:

I am aware that many object to the severity of my language, but is there not cause for severity? I will be harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not with to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! No! Tell a man whose house is on fire to sound a moderate alarm...but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present...

I am in earnest--I will not equivocate--I will not excuse--I will not retreat a single inch--AND I WILL BE HEARD.

Garrison's outspoken stand in favor of immediate freedom for slaves made him and his newspaper unpopular with pro-slavery forces both North and South. In Columbia, South Carolina, the Vigilance Committee offered a $1500 reward for the arrest of anyone distributing The Liberator, and the Georgia House of Representatives offered $5000 for Garrison's capture and trial. In Boston, however, in July of 1831, Boston black leaders honored Garrison at the The African Meeting House.

Garrison's activities did not end with the newspaper; late in 1831, he became the central figure in the organization of an anti-slavery association. In December, a committee of five men was appointed to draft a constitution for such an organization--Garrison, David Lee Child (husband of Lydia Maria Child), Samuel E. Sewall, Ellis Gray Loring, and Oliver Johnson. On January 1, 1832, the constitution was approved, but its preamble was to be revised and reported on at the next Meeting. On January 6, joined by others, they met again, at the African Meeting House.

The text of the preamble called for immediate emancipation, which created some disagreement in the group. Child, Sewall, and Loring did not sign, but twelve others did, including Garrison and Johnson, and the New England Anti-Slavery Society came into existence, the first organization in the country based on the principle of immediate abolition. Child, Sewall, and Loring later reconsidered, and joined the Society. Oliver Johnson, writing in 1879, described that meeting:

Of that...meeting my recollections are very vivid. A fierce north-east storm, combining snow, rain and hail in about equal proportions, was raging, and the streets were full of slush...They were very dark too...It almost seemed as if nature were frowning upon the new effort to abolish slavery...On that dismal night, and in the face of a public opinion fiercer far than the tempest of wind and hail that beat upon the windows of that ...[school-house], were laid the foundations of an organized movement against American slavery that at last became too mighty to be resisted...

As they left the meeting, Garrison remarked, "We have met to-night in this obscure school-house; our numbers are few and our influence limited; but, mark my prediction, Faneuil Hall shall ere long echo with the principles we have set forth. We shall shake the nation by their mighty power." Writing in 1910, local historian Mary Caroline Crawford described the meeting as "a landmark in American history" and went on to comment, "Great is the pity that no Rembrandt has arisen among Americans to send down through the ages the shadowy interior of that 'obscure school-house' in which, while storm and sleet were raging outside, the bravest of all American ventures was launched by a little handful of devoted Boston citizens."

In 1833, Garrison, with Samuel May and John Greenleaf Whittier, were the principle Massachusetts delegates to the convention that formed the American Anti-Slavery Society. In that same year he helped Prudence Crandall in her struggle to open a school for black girls. For his efforts, the pro-slavery forces in the community threatened to arrest him and turn him over to the state of Georgia for the $5000 reward. On his way to the World Anti-Slavery Convention in London, Garrison was able to avoid the sheriff and board the ship for England.

He was no more popular when he returned. On October 21, 1835, Garrison was dragged through the streets of Boston with a rope around his neck. He was rescued and turned over to the mayor, Theodore Lyman. Lyman, claiming it was the only way to assure his safety, charged him with disturbing the peace and ordered him jailed. The mob, however, attached the carriage transporting him and almost captured him again. On the wall of his jail cell, Garrison wrote:

Wm. Lloyd Garrison was put into this cell Wednesday afternoon, October 21, 1835, to save him from the violence of a 'respectable and influential' mob, who sought to destroy him for preaching the abominable and dangerous doctrine that "all men are created equal..."

In 1840, the American Anti-Slavery Society was split, largely because of disagreements about supporting the newly formed Liberty Party and its Presidential Candidate, James G. Birney. A new society, the American and Foreign Anti-Slavery Society, was formed, leaving Garrison with a weakened organization. There were more problems that year at the world convention in London, over the refusal of the convention to seat women delegates. By the end of the year, Garrison announced the formation of a new organization, the Friends of Universal Reform, sponsored by Maria Chapman, Abby Kelley Foster, Oliver Johnson, and Bronson Alcott (father of Louisa May Alcott).

Why did Garrison always seem to be a source of controversy? It is obvious why the pro-slavery forces hated him, but why were there so many differences with other abolitionists? Garrison had strong opinions about the methods that should be used to bring about emancipation. He did not believe that it could be done through the political process, and would not support any kind of political action. He attached organized religion and its leaders for not doing enough to fight slavery; in addition, he opposed any attempt at active resistance, believing only in nonviolent disobedience. He also did not limit himself to the issue of slavery; his opinions were just as strong, and as outspoken, on the subject of women's rights. Moreover, he could not remain broke with many of his former associates and supporters. He used The Liberator to attack, along with slavery and discrimination against women, smoking, drinking, the military, the clergy, the government, and cruelty to animals.

Although for a time it seemed as though he would end up with no supporters at all, his popularity seemed to grow in later years. In 1854, one month after the Anthony Burns incident, Garrison, speaking at a rally in Framingham on the 4th of July, burned a copy of the Constitution while 3000 people cheered.

Much later, in 1865, Garrison spoke at a celebration honoring the passage of the 13th Amendment. When he stood, the ovation was so great that he could not speak for several minutes. When he did, he said, "I am unspeakably happy to believe that the great mass of my countrymen are now heartily disposed to admit that I have not acted the part of a madman, fanatic, incediary or traitor." Later that year Garrison published the last issue of The Liberator. From then until his death in 1879, he concerned himself with other reform movements, especially temperance and women's suffrage. Archibald Grimke said of him, "Garrison, more than any other man, embodied the moral forces of the conflict, the story of his life being essentially the history of the moral uprising against Slavery."

Source: http://www.nps.gov/boaf/garris~1.htm

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Garrison was one gutsy little dude. BTW, notice above how much those freedom loving Southroons in South Carolina and Georgia respected the 1st Amendment. ;~))

Garrison was the anitlog of the Southern fire-eaters. Just like them, he was totally uncompromising on the slavery issue. His view of the Constitution as a 'pact with the devel' was what caused the very ugly split between him and Fredrick Douglass. Garrison saw the Constitution's recognition of slavery as evil while Douglass saw the recognition of individual liberty in the constitution as the ultimate hope for blacks.

367 posted on 11/14/2002 12:27:05 PM PST by Ditto
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