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To: GOPcapitalist
First, the constitutionality of who may suspend habeas corpus had already been decided several decades earlier by the Supreme Court in Bollman.

Chief Justice Renquist, who has written extensively about this very issue, strongly disagrees with you. He said quite plainly that the power of the President to suspend the writ in times of emergency is still undecided by the courts. Ergo, the rest of your argument is your opinion only.

As for this case, the ruling was the highest standing court decision on the matter upon its issue. If The Lincoln disputed it or wished not to follow it, he had to appeal it to the full supreme court.

Was the full court in session?

He refused to do so and instead simply ignored it. That in itself is a violation of the judicial process by The Lincoln.

As is his constitutional prerogative to do so. The Supreme Court, by design, has no enforcement power over the executive branch. Congress is the final authority on the actions of a President, not the courts, and Congress affirmed his acts!. Read The US constitution, not the one that Jeff Davis ignored for 4 years by never even appointing a court.

That they consented to an already-committed unconstitutional act in late 1861 in no way makes that act constitutional as it is not their call to make.

The fact that Congress was not in session in April of 1861, (timing that I'm sure was planned by the Confederates when they ratcheted tensions by firing on Sumter) allows the President to invoke the Militia Act. Members of congress were scattered across the continent from Maine to California and Oregon in April of 1861 and with transportation and communication of the day, and Congress only in session for 3 months a year, it was impossible to assemble them in time to deal with an emergency. That is why the first congress passed the Militia Act which gave the President very broad powers in a state of emergency. Calling the militia into the field to suppress a civil disturbance also invokes martial law. Although the militia act does not specifically mention the writ, a state of martial law presupposes a suspension of normal constitutional law.

Be honest about it. Jeff Davis and his coconspirators in Maryland knew the ways of Washington very well. They made a bet that with Congress away the "Country Bumkin" Lincoln would be paralyzed into inaction and Washington would be theirs in a cakewalk. They made the same stupid mistake that their descendent Rats make today in dealing with the "moron" Bush. Never underestimate a plainspoken man.

1,388 posted on 12/03/2002 1:34:56 PM PST by Ditto
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To: Ditto
They made a bet that with Congress away the "Country Bumkin" Lincoln would be paralyzed into inaction and Washington would be theirs in a cakewalk.

Congress would not normally have reconvened until September. Lincoln called them back on the 4th of July. That was probably pushing it. GOPCap sort of neglects the idea that armed troops had trouble getting through Baltimore streets en masse; imagine what what the mob could have done to individual Congressmen -- especially with the Baltimore mayor and police chief as avowed secessionists.

The sesesh probably thought they'd have the whole deal sewed up by September. The sesesh SURELY thought they had the perfect patsy in Abraham Lincoln. He'd never held an executive position unless you count a two person law firm. And Lincoln said that he hired his partner Herndon because he was well organized!

When you think about Lincoln's resume, and J. Davis's, it really is a hoot. Davis a graduate of West Point with active service in the Mexican war, secretary of War, senator.

But Lincoln foxed him and the other traitors at every turn.

All GOPCap's rant is -- is sour grapes.

Mean old Lincoln kicked his heroes' butts.

Kingdom Coming:

Blacks folks, have you seen the massah with a mustache on his face?

Went down the road this morning and left very sudden like he gwine to leave the place.

He seen the smoke up the river where the Lincum gunboats lay...

Grabbed his hat and lef very sudden and I 'spect he's run away...

The massah run away, ha ha.

The black folk stay, ho ho.

It must be Kingdom comin' in the year of Jubilo!

Walt

1,390 posted on 12/03/2002 1:47:08 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Ditto
Chief Justice Renquist, who has written extensively about this very issue, strongly disagrees with you. He said quite plainly that the power of the President to suspend the writ in times of emergency is still undecided by the courts. Ergo, the rest of your argument is your opinion only.

Rehnquist may disagree, and it is my understanding that he holds personally that the issue is debatable, but to say that the court has not ruled on it is to deny court precedent.

"The decision that the individual shall be imprisoned must always precede the application for a writ of habeas corpus, and this writ must always be for the purpose of revision that decision, and therefore appellate in its nature. But this point also is decided in Hamilton's case and in Burford's case. If at any time the public safety should require the suspension of the powers vested by this act in the courts of the United States, it is for the legislature to say so. That question depends on political considerations, on which the legislature is to decide. Until the legislative will be expressed, this court can only see its duty, and must obey the laws." - John Marshall for the majority, Ex Parte Bollman & Swartwout (1807)

Was the full court in session?

If you mean for Merryman, the ruling was a circuit court one. If you mean the supreme court, I do not know though the court can and has acted in extraordinary circumstances on appeals needing immediate attention, as would have been the case in this one.

As is his constitutional prerogative to do so.

It is his constitutional duty to operate within the constitutional process if he does not like a check imposed on his actions by another branch. That means having to appeal the decision. The Lincoln did not do so and therefore violated the constitutional process of the judiciary. The Supreme Court, by design, has no enforcement power over the executive branch.

The Supreme Court has no enforcement power per se over anything. It only rules on the matter. But it does have the authority to rule on the actions of the congress or the executive when they are in breach of the constitution.

The fact that Congress was not in session in April of 1861, (timing that I'm sure was planned by the Confederates when they ratcheted tensions by firing on Sumter) allows the President to invoke the Militia Act.

The militia act does not permit the president to suspend habeas corpus. Try again.

Members of congress were scattered across the continent from Maine to California and Oregon in April of 1861 and with transportation and communication of the day, and Congress only in session for 3 months a year, it was impossible to assemble them in time to deal with an emergency.

Difficult yes, but not impossible. Only two small population states were beyond a relatively easy journey to Washington, California and Oregon. The rest could have made it there.

That is why the first congress passed the Militia Act which gave the President very broad powers in a state of emergency.

But not the power to suspend habeas corpus, which standing court precedent says is for the legislature to decide including in times "the public safety should require the suspension" of the writ.

1,395 posted on 12/03/2002 6:01:09 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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